What Next to Feel More Planted

[blitz423]

It works great TBH and I feel minimal to not NVH. But I don’t mind getting it even stiffer to see if it helps even incrementally more.

I've seen people say the PRL RMM is even softer than the Hasport U62A but I have no idea how they can tell unless they had both for over a month each to really know. I just installed a Hasport U62A last week and have no idea how much more softer a PRL would be. At the rate I take this car out to drive and go through enough gear changes it might take me 6months to fully break in the RMM.

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[getRIGHT]

I have the Mugen dampers, but I still haven't had a chance to install them. Did you feel a difference?

Yes. It really smooths out the chatter from the road nicely over uneven surfaces. If they had called them comfort dampers and taken the word performance out of the name they wouldn’t be able to keep them in stock

 

[MoodySara]

I'm a little surprised that nobody has mentioned tires yet.
Tires are the thing that most determines how your car turns or stops or accelerates.
Learning how to read what the tires are doing and how to change what they're doing will allow you to affect the feel by a lot.

 

[Clark_Kent]

BLUF: Performance Alignment + Track & Competition Tires + Rear Motor Mount is a good start. Once you have seat time with the aforementioned, reassess and determine next steps.

You’re already on the right path. That floaty feeling under acceleration is exactly what the rear motor mount fixes, so the fact it transformed the car tells you you’re focusing on the right areas. Not sure what your use case is but for aggressive street driving on canyons, mountain roads, or the equivalent I would not jump straight into adding a bunch of hardware. Start with a proper performance alignment and better tires like Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 or Pirelli P Zero Trofeo RS in a wider size. More front camber and more capable rubber will do more for stability and confidence than most bolt-ons. You will feel it immediately in turn-in, mid-corner grip, and how composed the car feels under power. From there, make an assessment and determine next steps.

On lowering springs, I would strongly caution against them if your goal is real performance. This is a polarizing topic and I'm sure the fanbois will rush in with post-purchase rationalization, but lowering springs are not the ticket. They change spring rate and ride height without re-matching the damper curve, which disrupts how the FL5’s suspension is designed to control wheel movement. If you want to keep improving, a rear sway bar is the next logical step to help rotation without hurting compliance. If you decide to go further, skip springs entirely and move to a complete system like Öhlins Road & Track coilovers where the spring and damper are designed to work together.

 

[TchnoZ33]

BLUF: Performance Alignment + Track & Competition Tires + Rear Motor Mount is a good start. Once you have seat time with the aforementioned, reassess and determine next steps.

You’re already on the right path. That floaty feeling under acceleration is exactly what the rear motor mount fixes, so the fact it transformed the car tells you you’re focusing on the right areas. Not sure what your use case is but for aggressive street driving on canyons, mountain roads, or the equivalent I would not jump straight into adding a bunch of hardware. Start with a proper performance alignment and better tires like Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 or Pirelli P Zero Trofeo RS in a wider size. More front camber and more capable rubber will do more for stability and confidence than most bolt-ons. You will feel it immediately in turn-in, mid-corner grip, and how composed the car feels under power. From there, make an assessment and determine next steps.

On lowering springs, I would strongly caution against them if your goal is real performance. This is a polarizing topic and I'm sure the fanbois will rush in with post-purchase rationalization, but lowering springs are not the ticket. They change spring rate and ride height without re-matching the damper curve, which disrupts how the FL5’s suspension is designed to control wheel movement. If you want to keep improving, a rear sway bar is the next logical step to help rotation without hurting compliance. If you decide to go further, skip springs entirely and move to a complete system like Öhlins Road & Track coilovers where the spring and damper are designed to work together.

Love this! Pretty much what I wanted to hear ha. Yeah I don’t want to add springs, I don’t want to spend money to hurt handling. When i am ready, I am doing coilovers. As for camber, I’ll probably wait until I get coilovers? Wouldn’t fine tuning the camber with OEM set up be not optimal? I am probably getting the RV6 sway bar and PRL rigid colllars. I am also going from 18 inch wheels to 19 again. We see what that does. In the next 6 months I’ll probably end up getting a more aggressive RMM (to be determined which one). Yes tires will obviously be part of all of this but I don’t think they do much for that floating feeling which comes from suspension and car geometry.

 

[ABPDE5]

BLUF: Performance Alignment + Track & Competition Tires + Rear Motor Mount is a good start. Once you have seat time with the aforementioned, reassess and determine next steps.

You’re already on the right path. That floaty feeling under acceleration is exactly what the rear motor mount fixes, so the fact it transformed the car tells you you’re focusing on the right areas. Not sure what your use case is but for aggressive street driving on canyons, mountain roads, or the equivalent I would not jump straight into adding a bunch of hardware. Start with a proper performance alignment and better tires like Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 or Pirelli P Zero Trofeo RS in a wider size. More front camber and more capable rubber will do more for stability and confidence than most bolt-ons. You will feel it immediately in turn-in, mid-corner grip, and how composed the car feels under power. From there, make an assessment and determine next steps.

On lowering springs, I would strongly caution against them if your goal is real performance. This is a polarizing topic and I'm sure the fanbois will rush in with post-purchase rationalization, but lowering springs are not the ticket. They change spring rate and ride height without re-matching the damper curve, which disrupts how the FL5’s suspension is designed to control wheel movement. If you want to keep improving, a rear sway bar is the next logical step to help rotation without hurting compliance. If you decide to go further, skip springs entirely and move to a complete system like Öhlins Road & Track coilovers where the spring and damper are designed to work together.

Lowering springs will also throw off your roll center and cause bump steer, both of which will negatively impact handling at or near the limit. You can correct for this, but relevant parts for the FL5 are limited and not well documented.

 

[optronix]

I still can't really reconcile the "floating feeling". I must have skipped that part. I thought the car was about as perfect as it could get from an OEM setup perspective- and I have the "softer" DE5. But clearly I started adding things to the car so it couldn't have been that "perfect", right?

The major thing that took me down the mods path was wanting to place higher in my local autocross- and aesthetics. Folks have already weighed in on this and I may even be repeating myself because I think I've contributed to this thread as well, but use case is going to drive what you want out of the car. Case in point, I still don't think I even want a tune. The car makes plenty of power as it comes from the factory IMHO. Maybe that's where the "floating" thing comes from... adding power to a FWD car takes weight off the front wheels under acceleration- and from just a hypothetical standpoint a RMM should do a lot to counter that.

But of all the various things you do to the car, you have to recognize that you're deviating from what the Honda engineers- with all of the skill and billions of dollars of resources that went into their efforts- intended. Granted, they had to deliver a street car that has certain NVH, reliability, and wear item concerns so there will always be "room for improvement" from a performance perspective. But you're actively working against those original considerations so there absolutely is always the chance you're going to end up making the car "worse" in at least some ways. The definition of "worse" is subjective, however. Many of us at the enthusiast level can tolerate more NVH if it makes the car go faster around a parking lot or track, or look better to our eyes. But adding springs without adjusting front camber and making the car push like it's got a boat anchor strapped to the hood- that's a different story.

All that being said, you still have to identify your priorities. From there, we as the community who are also on this journey of trying to make the car "better or worse" can chime in with what our experiences have taught us thus far.

Based on what I'm hearing, camber (and optionally tires) should be your next move. If you have to lower you're already on the right track- just jump straight to coilovers. But honestly if you're not worried about aesthetics you can skip that part for now. Adding more camber is going to make the car MUCH more responsive.

Now for the tradeoffs and considerations. Adding another degree of camber is really a minimal tradeoff. Full stop. I've been living with -3.5 up front, which is a deviation of at least 2 full degrees from OEM. The only wear issues I have are from the extremely aggressive driving I do during autocross. I can chew through a set of OEM PS4S in a single event, probably no more than 3-4 runs. But the all seasons I use for winter when I drive like a grandpa- I've put at least 3.5k miles on them and they still look brand new with normal street driving. So I'd say with ~-2-2.5 degrees camber up front and street driving, you're not really sacrificing much at all in the way of tire durability (assuming zero or near-zero toe). Take that with a grain of salt as it's not necessarily scientific, but I think most folks on here would agree. What you gain is instant turn-in response, and making an already fantastic front end feeling for this platform even better. And you at least start for "free" by pulling the strut alignment pins and pushing the top of the strut inward. You can tweak it even further by loosening other bolts around the strut area (presumably- I saw a YouTube on it once... but the pins thing works for about an extra .5-.8 degrees). If you want a real adjustment you will need lower ball joints. And get an alignment any time you screw around with the suspension.

As for tires, you need to choose your own adventure here. My actual recommendation would be to stick with PS4S until you actively recognize you need more tire. This is only going to happen with actual motorsports. I do not think a 200TW is even a good choice for sole usage on the street. I actually prefer the Michelins on the street- they're quieter, tramline far less, and are fantastic in the rain whereas a 200TW can get sketch if you're not paying attention (esp. with added camber). IMHO, only bump up to a stickier tire after you've got a good handle on the car during track, DE, autocross, etc. and you feel the tires actively holding you back. You can get pretty far with the PS4S, it's actually a damn good tire for what it is. And then when you get to that point where you've grown out of them, you will appreciate the upgrade even more.

I'd pass on the rear bar for now- the car rotates fine in stock form (and will improve with added front camber too); it's not necessary esp. for street driving.

Rigid collars could also be a worthy upgrade though. I'll get to adding them myself eventually, along with a RMM but as I mentioned my priorities are different. These are "feel mods" and don't do much for performance. Camber does both.

That's enough for today lol.

 

[chopsuey34]

You’re already on the right path. That floaty feeling under acceleration is exactly what the rear motor mount fixes, so the fact it transformed the car tells you you’re focusing on the right areas. Not sure what your use case is but for aggressive street driving on canyons, mountain roads, or the equivalent I would not jump straight into adding a bunch of hardware. Start with a proper performance alignment and better tires like Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 or Pirelli P Zero Trofeo RS in a wider size. More front camber and more capable rubber will do more for stability and confidence than most bolt-ons. You will feel it immediately in turn-in, mid-corner grip, and how composed the car feels under power. From there, make an assessment and determine next steps.

Clark, I drive an Si, and I know you drive a CTR, but what front/rear camber settings would you recommend for street driving for some better turn-in and response? Are there any generalities between the Si and CTR?

 

[Clark_Kent]

Clark, I drive an Si, and I know you drive a CTR, but what front/rear camber settings would you recommend for street driving for some better turn-in and response? Are there any generalities between the Si and CTR?

I don't know the Si platform well enough to provide any insight. I'm sure there's someone here versed in the Si who can help out.

 

[B16B]

A rear sway is the best mod to do. It's immediately noticeable improvement with almost no disadvantage. The collars are a subtle but weird improvement. Gets rid of that cheap rattly feel to a more refined feel, like a European car.

I agree. My Spoon rear sway bar helped with my turn in again.

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