🔴💊 Engine Oil Red Pill Thread: Only Post If You Have UOA - Official Honda Civic Type R K20C1 Engine Oil Analysis

[cryptolime]

The one metric that really stands out is the Flash point temperature is way way higher. 231c vs 203c pup. hmmmmm I may try

which Castrol? they have different variations like Edge, Edge EP (hardly ever see this in stores), and GTX.

 

[johnloov]

which Castrol? they have different variations like Edge, Edge EP (hardly ever see this in stores), and GTX.

EP this one

 

[johnloov]

Redline 5w30 is not api sp - its 0w-20 and 0w-30 formulas are though

 

[xpystchrisx]

Yep. I'm okay with it.

 

[absolude]

Alright, I got my most recent UOA back from SPEEDiagnostix. I am pretty excited about the result since my wear rate has finally fallen below the ideal threshold of 5ppm/1000 miles. I am just over 10,000 miles at this point. The viscosity held up a bit better this time around, which may have been because the last oil change was replacing 0W-20 PUP. My fuel dilution was surprisingly low for my use of the car, as I recently moved to a place where everything is super close, so the car is getting short-tripped more (unfortunately, but it is highly convenient).

Something that seems a bit weird to me is that the additive package seems to be slightly different or slightly depleted, although I don't think it would have been the new SQ formulation when I changed it last time. There will be some variance bottle to bottle and from the testing method so maybe it's nothing. Regardless, PUP 5W-30 appears to be capable of excellent wear protection for street/spirited driving. This oil sample has zero track days, but I do drive very hard on backroads when I can, so this isn't a simple daily driven result.

I have 0W-20 PUP in the car at the moment to do some A-B-B-A testing, but I kinda wish I would have put in 5W-20 PUP just to see if it is more shear stable as I would expect. I've been debating what viscosity I want to continue running in the warmer months, and when the car is tuned, but after seeing this result I probably will stick with 5W-30. It would be interesting to try something like Liqui-Moly Molygen next time, but it is a little difficult to justify the price increase for an oil that shears like crazy. I may also be able to wait until the HRC oil hits the shelves before I change oil next as well, which I am dying to see the results of.

Thank you for posting these, it's a great help for the community.

I also switched to PUP 5W-30 in my previous vehicles that recommended 0W-20 and planning to do the same for the ITS.

How cold it gets in your area during winter? Any concerns for cold starts with the 5W-30?

 

[Ktrw]

Thank you for posting these, it's a great help for the community.

I also switched to PUP 5W-30 in my previous vehicles that recommended 0W-20 and planning to do the same for the ITS.

How cold it gets in your area during winter? Any concerns for cold starts with the 5W-30?

I live in the PNW so the coldest we typically get is 20-30s. I have no concerns with 5W-30 in that range but if you live somewhere much colder then it certainly makes sense to consider a 20 grade oil. You can obviously run 20 grade oils anyway for a number of other reasons but it getting super cold is definitely a good reason. For my use case and location I think 5W-30 seems to be a better year round oil so I'll probably stick with that. I've watched the oil pressure on cold starts numerous times and compared data logs between 0W-20 and 5W-30 (fully cold to operating temp) and I don't have concerns with it being too viscous based on what I've seen, felt, and observed from the wear data.

I have some HRC 5W-30 I need to get a sample oil on my next oil change.

 

[absolude]

I live in the PNW so the coldest we typically get is 20-30s. I have no concerns with 5W-30 in that range but if you live somewhere much colder then it certainly makes sense to consider a 20 grade oil. You can obviously run 20 grade oils anyway for a number of other reasons but it getting super cold is definitely a good reason. For my use case and location I think 5W-30 seems to be a better year round oil so I'll probably stick with that. I've watched the oil pressure on cold starts numerous times and compared data logs between 0W-20 and 5W-30 (fully cold to operating temp) and I don't have concerns with it being too viscous based on what I've seen, felt, and observed from the wear data.

I have some HRC 5W-30 I need to get a sample oil on my next oil change.

I'm in Toronto, Canada.
During winter I only drive the ITS when roads are clean. I park it in the garage at home and also at work, so only the occasional cold start when I go shopping makes me consider staying on 0w-20. Looks like I have to compromise a little since I usually don't drive enough during winter to justify switching twice a year.

Definitely a solid choice for you staying with the 5w-30.

Comparing the HRC with the Pennzoil will be very interesting if you get that one analyzed.

 

[cryptolime]

i'm curious to know if anyone has ever seen a bad UOA with 0w20

 

[johnloov]

I’ve never seen it, but I change my oil every 2-3k. I think past 5k would not be recommend especially for 0w-20 api sp sq s . 5w30 you can go 5,000 miles. But keep in mind engine oils degrade after 2-3000 miles and containments become your enemy.

 

[zumbooruk]

Based on a recent discussion on BITOG, I just bought Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 for my second oil change in about 1,000 miles (which will be 5,000 OCI)

Currently I have Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30

The reason for Mobil 1 ESP is that PUP might (or might not be) GTL, as it no longer says "made from gas" nor "made from gas". recent Lake Speed Jr showed some differences from original, yet Pennzoil says no change in formula...

The reason for 0W-30 is that to get 0W they have to use "higher quality base oils"

"M1 ESP 0W-30 uses very high quality base oils and is a Euro oil many people like and use here."
" ... to hit that 0W, they have to use higher quality base oils."
"M1 0W-40 is a better option (than the 5W)"
"I mean M1 ESP 5W-30 is a fine oil too with good approvals but 0W-30 has a little extra"
"As I understand it, ESP 0W-30 has some ester oil in the base"

BTW, the main concern as far as OCI was fuel dilution, and recommendation was to get UOA.

Seems that fuel dilution depends on driving style. hard driving, shifting at/near redline results in less dilution. hypermiling, short shifting, lugging the engine results in more dilution

Yet another benefit to my driving style, the first was blowing off deposits when driving hard and shifting at/near redline

I am now researching best labs / best value for UOA, preliminary seems Amsoil kit

 

[Mrjustin81]

I saw on theoilgeekguy has also talked about how the formula has changed .

 

[johnloov]

I've always been super curious about the 5w/30 Castrol Edge Extended Performance.

Let's find out is it total BS or Better than the old PUP formulas.

If anyone has any Blackstone reports on this oil will appreciate it - just ordered 12 to test through this next seasons. I'll take a virgin sample and run it.

 

[johnloov]

 

[absolude]

I've always been super curious about the 5w/30 Castrol Edge Extended Performance.

Let's find out is it total BS or Better than the old PUP formulas.

Thank you for posting this. The obvious alternative since the Pennzoil controversy. It is on my short list for the first oil change.

We are so focused on PAO content. Does PAO content play a major role in 3 to 5K miles oil change interval?

 

[zumbooruk]

I did a lot of reading and research after finding out the PUP might not be the same PUP formulation which I've been using, and came to the conclusion that Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 is the best readily available off the shelf oil (not boutique oils, as they seem not needed when changing every 5,000 miles)

I just did some more digging into Castrol Edge, seems that Castrol EDGE 0W-30 LL is the "best" Castrol formulation for our K20C1 engines... yet above Castrol EDGE are the extended performance formulations

It indeed seems a toss up between M1 ESP and Edge LL (with M1 ESP having a slight edge over Edge)

Both M1 ESP and EDGE LL are Euro C3 and are not Honda HTO-06, while EDGE Extended Performance is Honda HTO-06 approved (note that it is a "thinner" 30 oil, less than 10 cSt, which nearly as thin as 20 weight oils, and it also has lower HTHS than the C3 oils ).

Yet Honda does not require HTO-06 for the K20C1, and the Euro C3 formulations (M1 ESP and EDGE LL) seems to have the potential to better protect our engine and turbocharger.

My guess is that I fretting over nothing, and that at 5,000 OCI, mild street driving (not racing or tracking), there really isn't much of a difference to worry about...

Yet on the other hand I am a black belt worrier.

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