🔴💊 Engine Oil Red Pill Thread: Only Post If You Have UOA - Official Honda Civic Type R K20C1 Engine Oil Analysis

[johnloov]

According to blackstone - if your changing your oil frequently - they haven’t seen much of any difference and that’s congruent with what the Nissan skyline gtr engine builder also said when they opened up many engines after 2k 5k 10k there was a big difference in changing at 2k vs 5k vs 10k and the engine oil didn’t matter much, even semi synthetics.

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[johnloov]

Does anyone have track water temp data running 0W-20, then moving up to 5w-30 then 5w-40. I believe this guy is running 5w-40 and his temps are off the charts. 253.4F Water temp and over 300F oil temps.

Here are my water and oil temps in texas on stock car running 5w-20 but I do have the heater on max, fan off, ac off and have installed a $60 water mister hack, which seems to be working very well.

https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threa...rom-99°f-texas-hpde.65392/page-2#post-1100242

I'll have lab results soon from this new generation lower quality 5w-20 PUP.

 

[cryptolime]

Does anyone have track water temp data running 0W-20, then moving up to 5w-30 then 5w-40. I believe this guy is running 5w-40 and his temps are off the charts. 253.4F Water temp and over 300F oil temps.

Here are my water and oil temps in texas on stock car running 5w-20 but I do have the heater on max, fan off, ac off and have installed a $60 water mister hack, which seems to be working very well.

https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/fl5-track-cooling-experiment-portable-water-misting-the-condenser-radiator-intercooler-data-from-99°f-texas-hpde.65392/page-2#post-1100242

I'll have lab results soon from this new generation lower quality 5w-20 PUP.

thicker oil produces more heat due to less flow

 

[joshinthecity]

thicker oil produces more heat due to less flow

I have now come around and accepted this as fact. I'm running 0W-20, inc track.

 

[johnloov]

I do recommend trying 5w20 - it's at touch thicker and less viscosity improvers so should not theoretically sheer as much - ill have results soon - but no matter - all experts agree change your oil every 2000 miles (2-3 track days ) or 3000 miles with daily.

 

[joshinthecity]

I have tried 5W.
No "perceivable" difference.
Max 5,000klm between changes and less if Tracking.

 

[iforgettopee]

I did notice increased temps - both coolant and logR indicated oil temps - when I ran 5w40 during a hot track day...
I've stuck with 5w30 or 10w30 since then... every time I've tested my oil after a track day, it's still been in spec for a 30wt - I feel confident that I could do 2 track days on 30wt oil if I were doing back2back Sat/Sun track days, but otherwise I still change my oil before every track day and my oil rarely sees more than 2000 miles before it gets drained.

 

[cryptolime]

I do recommend trying 5w20 - it's at touch thicker and less viscosity improvers so should not theoretically sheer as much - ill have results soon - but no matter - all experts agree change your oil every 2000 miles (2-3 track days ) or 3000 miles with daily.

HPL sells "NO VII" engine oil. basically oil without any viscosity improver. I haven't tried it but people rave about it. supposed to be extremely shear stable. "virtually no shear". doesn't come in 0w. only 5w and 10w oils.

 

[johnloov]

Currently known knowns from this experiment on a stock FL5 is:

1) Change your engine oil every 2-3k miles 2-3 track days
2) Fill it to slightly above the top line on dipstick - ensure you have oil for high gforces
3) 0W-20 5w-20 API SQ Honda Ultimate, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, works perfect, without increasing engine temps. Data shows so far extremely low engine wear
4) The first 10,000 miles you are still flushing out wear metals, so it’s actually most important to change most often in the beginning.
5) Motul Power 8100 5w/30 can hold extremely well with track use even at 5,000 mile intervals. Motul’s with PAO are very sheer resistant including the 0w-20 API SP formulas.
6) Motul V300 degrades very quickly and is designed to be changed, maybe after 1-2 track days 1-1000 miles.
7) All engine oils get contaminated after 2000 miles - Just imagine putting sand into oil and rubbing your fingers back and forth. Those metal contaminants slowly sand down your engine.
8) The most damage happens in startup. If your engine oil isn’t able to circulate instantly, then that’s metal on metal on contact. Some test I’ve seen show it takes like 20-30% longer from 0W-20 to 5w-30 to lubricate. Can’t remember exact data but it was like 1.7 seconds vs 2.3 etc. could have been 5w40, but you get the idea
9) Data Data data. There are engines with 500k +miles with 0W20 just change it every 3000 miles max ( normal driving )
10) Thicker is not better. Those pistons float, like a water skier on water, vs a skier on molasses. API SQ engine oils are day a night superior vs old school engine oils.
11) 5w/30 API SQ is perfectly fine and better for 5k change intervals.

Data data data - test it - to find out

This is so far what I’ve learned and the data is showing. I’m open to always change my mind, if the data slaps me across the face.

 

[johnloov]

Here we go. The thicker engine oil didn’t save the GM engine failures

 

[NewCivicRs]

So the conclusion is 0w20 or 5w30 for spirited driving daily driving in hot climate 32 C? (no track purposes)

 

[johnloov]

An API Sq 5w30 or thicker 0w20 - Looks like both API SQ work well, just change it often 3000 miles (Max for a 0w20) 5000 miles ( Max for a 5w30 ) . Personal I have all the real data on 0W 20 honda ultimate and pennzoil ultra platinum and it came perfect and soon I’ll have data on 5W 20 and then after that I will have data on a thin 5W-30 Castrol edge extended performance.

 

[johnloov]

Latest Lakespeed Junior Main Takeaways - consistent with our findings:

Contamination may matter more than which premium oil you buy. This is particularly relevant to your oil-analysis experiments. After reviewing roughly 20,000 used-oil samples, the speaker says contamination is the issue he sees most consistently: fuel dilution, silicon/dirt, and other contaminants correlate with increased wear. Once contamination is under control, many of the differences people argue about become relatively minor.

Cold starts appear to be a major wear mechanism. Andrew tested an engine with and without preheating and reported that wear was roughly twice as high without the block heater. The hosts use this as evidence that operating conditions can overwhelm comparatively small differences between oil formulations.

They estimate the difference between otherwise suitable oils is often surprisingly small. In controlled comparisons, they say different oils were fairly close, with a typical difference perhaps around 15–20%, although some particular engines can show much larger differences because they have specific mechanical weaknesses or lubrication sensitivities.

 

[J_D]

Howdy Fellas. Let me join in:

I had the oil in the car for about 5-6 months, only 6600km =4,101 miles. I live in a dense city so my mileage isn’t high but the type of driving is not oil friendly.

1. Oil Brand and Viscosity: Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W20
2. Miles on Oil: 4101 miles / 6606 km
3. Track Use or Street Use (or mix) Mixed use. Daily + 29x 20 min HPDE sessions over summer.
4. Engine Temp Ranges Observed: LogR Reached 131C =267f regularly
5. Modifications Stock
6. Optional: Normally every 10000 km or 6200 miles.

 

[johnloov]

The only improvement I would recommend is changing it after 2-3 track days 2000-3000 miles to reduce Iron and Aluminum ppm. Your Iron is about 3x higher than some of our data with shorter change intervals. With also factoring change intervals. I believe Iron is the main bearing wear indicator. Correct me if I’m wrong. Even though sheer stability is excellent, viscosity is excellent, it seems still contamination is the bigger problem as we saw with even the one other gentleman running Motul 0w-20 with longer changer intervals. Still over all excellent data and results for the 5-6 track days!

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