Eventuri or Infinity Design?

[blueroadster]

Infinity Design notes from a FB post today:

Intake setup looks great but I would be pissed if I spent $$$ while also having to deal with install issues.

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[Clark_Kent]

Intake setup looks great but I would be pissed if I spent $$$ while also having to deal with install issues.

This. Paying top dollar for a part with questionable fit and/or finish is a non-starter. And this modifying finished goods, expensive ones at that, stuff is nonsense. Don't you want more for yourself?

 

[nattypiso]

Intake setup looks great but I would be pissed if I spent $$$ while also having to deal with install issues.

I mean it’s really hard to get carbon fiber perfect. You see it all the time, from hoods, wheel fenders, to wings.

I think Phothrottle posted a video recently reviewing his new front lip that he just got and from what I heard, he has fitment issues.. and the product is coming from the ever so popular, Spoon.

 

[getRIGHT]

Are you on a stock/factory tune? I also read one person say that their car drove fine but a tuner said their MAF readings were still wonky. Not sure if that was just a selling technique for the tuner to get a sale tho.

I was for the first 4k miles. Within the last 1000 I’ve had a Hondata jailbreak with the 93 octane OTF base map. I’ve yet to have a custom tune or seen any Dyno time.

 

[getRIGHT]

Nice Origin tank and STB.

Thanks!

 

[blueroadster]

I mean it’s really hard to get carbon fiber perfect. You see it all the time, from hoods, wheel fenders, to wings.

I think Phothrottle posted a video recently reviewing his new front lip that he just got and from what I heard, he has fitment issues.. and the product is coming from the ever so popular, Spoon.

Gruppe M intake is carbon and fits without issue. 3D scanning and JDM for the win I guess.

 

[optronix]

This. Paying top dollar for a part with questionable fit and/or finish is a non-starter. And this modifying finished goods, expensive ones at that, stuff is nonsense. Don't you want more for yourself?

You pay for the design, engineering, and manufacturing. What makes you decide what you want to pay for is subjective; looks, sound, performance, etc. in this case. I was confident the shop I chose to install would be able to execute successfully, and they were. Someone else who is considering installing themselves and wants to know what they're getting into may think differently. I'm happy with the product. I don't personally think it's "nonsense", so I'm also happy to offer a contrary perspective.

Gruppe M intake is carbon and fits without issue. 3D scanning and JDM for the win I guess.

See, this is another thing about this forum in particular that drives me absolutely nuts. Many of you people seem to be firmly stuck on this concept that Goro Nyodo Masamune personally passed down all his artisan swordsmithing techniques to every single component that comes out of Japan. It's kind of funny, but as with most things these days, if there isn't substantial evidence to back it up it just enters this sort of "hive mind" mentality that certain clusters of people just generally accept. I'm as much a fan of Japan and its culture as any weeb, but that's a bad thing, and it needs to stop.

I referenced it earlier, the Gruppe M has had several implications on this very forum that people have issues with CELs and drivability (e.g., boost leaks, rough idle, etc.). That doesn't necessarily mean the part is flawed as per my earlier points about sample size etc., but personally? It did influence my decision-making process. Admittedly what actually got me to remove the Gruppe M from my consideration was the fact I didn't want to be the guinea pig for running into unforeseen installation issues on the DE5, as well as I didn't think the shade of red aligned with the DE5 engine bay... but I don't think it's a fair assessment to keep throwing out this implication that because it's from Japan it's "better" in any real sense. In fact, I'd rather run into issues during installation than have it throwing codes until I got it pro-tuned. But that's just me.

If it lets you sleep at night knowing that Hattori Hanzo would approve of your intake decision, cool. But I'd just encourage you to have some actual evidence before throwing around this "JDM for the win" stuff.

 

[coldradio1]

While I see what you mean about worshipping JDM brands, generally speaking, many people (even non-car people) associate Japanese products with high standards, workmanship and practical innovation. What do people associate with UK products? Shoddy build quality, poor fit and finish, and SPAM.

I get there’s exceptions to every rule (and this particular GruppeM intake may be one of them), but there is some truth behind the generalization.

 

[Cueyo]

Admittedly what actually got me to remove the Gruppe M from my consideration was the fact I didn't want to be the guinea pig for running into unforeseen installation issues on the DE5, as well as I didn't think the shade of red aligned with the DE5 engine bay... but I don't think it's a fair assessment to keep throwing out this implication that because it's from Japan it's "better" in any real sense. In fact, I'd rather run into issues during installation than have it throwing codes until I got it pro-tuned. But that's just me.

That installation part you mention is kinda null and void if you're having a respectable shop do it, no? If the gruppeM has less installation quirks than the infinity, then it would be easier for the shop installing the intake. If not, then the same way around, since it's not like you need to worry about getting it put in. To me personally, if I'm paying top dollar for an intake, I expect the people making it have the most of the quirks ironed out. Its like paying the Apple tax, but to get your phone turned on you need to do a screen repair (ie: premium final product for an inconvenient and more than likely impossible task for some people to get to that).

Fully agree with your take here on "Japanese engineering" - though coming from someone who's works with Japanese and German engineers (the two big auto makers), their approaches to engineering are very different and explains all the quirks they have.

A German engineer making an oil pan would notice that the oil pan breaks after 10,000 miles, so they would simply redesign an oil pan thats more structurally sound (very common practice for German engineers). Japanese engineers on the other hand, spend most of their time not engineering the solution, but figuring out why it happened in the first place. That's why the fixes they introduce may not always be the best, because the actual fix itself is less important than the problem that caused it (at least in the auto industry).

Likewise, people see that in the cars and immediately attribute it to everything in Japanese culture, which is completely stupid and short sighted.

 

[Clark_Kent]

You pay for the design, engineering, and manufacturing. What makes you decide what you want to pay for is subjective; looks, sound, performance, etc. in this case. I was confident the shop I chose to install would be able to execute successfully, and they were. Someone else who is considering installing themselves and wants to know what they're getting into may think differently. I'm happy with the product. I don't personally think it's "nonsense", so I'm also happy to offer a contrary perspective.

My concern is more fundamental:
When you pay premium prices for 'design, engineering, and manufacturing,' you should expect a product that reflects that investment - meaning proper fitment and high finish quality straight out of the box.

Your shop's ability to successfully modify the part speaks to their skill, not the product's value proposition. A truly well-engineered premium part should install correctly without requiring that expertise in the first place. We clearly part company on these core tenets and that's totally fine.

And yeah, it will always be JDM until the casket dips...don't you know where you are?!

 

[getRIGHT]

If it lets you sleep at night knowing that Hattori Hanzo would approve of your intake decision, cool. But I'd just encourage you to have some actual evidence before throwing around this "JDM for the win" stuff.

I don’t want to beat a dead horse or anything but……. I’m about to beat this dead horse anyway

I think your assumptions that just because a limited amount of users had an issue with a product and that concludes that the product must be defective is a little short sighted. Clearly other users with the same product using it on the same platform have had positive results and zero issues. One would have to conclude there must be some user error involved. Most likely in installation or failure to adhere to instructions. For the record the GruppeM does come with full color instructions so I see how someone could mess it up

I went with this intake after months of searching out evidence to back it up. There are plenty of Dyno vids and graphs on this very forum and elsewhere to back up the claim this one sits at the top along side a few others. I could post vid after vid proving this but I am sure you have the same search feature I do. I further went in to see and study what the actual race teams are doing right now in real time. That is also fairly easy to do and aren’t translating kanji and subtitles fun?

For example, here is currently the Honda R&D team in Super Taikyu not only using a GruppeM intake they appear to be using a Varis bumper and hood as well. I love a good JDM generalization but a solid conclusion can also be founded in facts.

I bet Hattori would be proud

 

[optronix]

I don’t want to beat a dead horse or anything but……. I’m about to beat this dead horse anyway

I think your assumptions that just because a limited amount of users had an issue with a product and that concludes that the product must be defective is a little short sighted. Clearly other users with the same product using it on the same platform have had positive results and zero issues. One would have to conclude there must be some user error involved. Most likely in installation or failure to adhere to instructions. For the record the GruppeM does come with full color instructions so I see how someone could mess it up

I went with this intake after months of searching out evidence to back it up. There are plenty of Dyno vids and graphs on this very forum and elsewhere to back up the claim this one sits at the top along side a few others. I could post vid after vid proving this but I am sure you have the same search feature I do. I further went in to see and study what the actual race teams are doing right now in real time. That is also fairly easy to do and aren’t translating kanji and subtitles fun?

For example, here is currently the Honda R&D team in Super Taikyu not only using a GruppeM intake they appear to be using a Varis bumper and hood as well. I love a good JDM generalization but a solid conclusion can also be founded in facts.

I bet Hattori would be proud

Yeah, seeing a Honda race car with the Gruppe M on it would push me over the edge too lol (although that also begs the question on how the car was tuned but I digress...). THAT is what I'm talking about though- it's not just an echo chamber of internet randos, there is at least some sort of real-world validation here.

Which brings me to my next point, which I've made already- I don't think everyone is reading everything I've posted in this thread so I'll say it again- I would have likely gone with the Gruppe M if I had an FL5. I'm confident in my shop's abilities, but there's a whole other dimension with not validating with the vendor that the part is actually intended to fit the car. I noticed there is the piece that basically drops down into the bumper; I didn't trust that piece to align completely with the DE5 bumper so I sought another solution. Maybe it does maybe it doesn't, I couldn't find evidence so I moved on. I might have tried to force the issue if the Eventuri and Infinity Design didn't come into the mix with validated options that fit the DE5 (also worth mentioning, the Infinity Design generally performs very well on dyno charts relative to competition...). The stuff about drivability was just a popular conversation a while back, at least popular enough for me to notice. I don't think it's nearly enough evidence to come to any conclusion, but it is noteworthy was all I was saying.

My broader point is still valid though. I can't recall just how many times I've seen on this forum how much "JDM IS BEST" propagates throughout here. Yes I know where I'm at- the allure of the Type R badge was strong with me too- but I'm also a data guy and get pretty peeved when I see people default to emotions so quickly.

I'll concede here though- I never really was trying to convince anyone that the Gruppe M wasn't a great option for an intake... but evidence has been posted and I'm happy to stand down. That's all I ever want, anyway. Data-backed TRUTH gets me all kinds of excited.

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