FL5 Overheated on Track

[yeaitsahonda]

Where did you install the sender? Honda's model estimates oil temp at the sump.

A few people did this comparison for the fk8, me included. I have a p3 gauge and an aem sender at the drain bolt. I had to linearize the calibration curve, but it's supposed to be pretty accurate for the range 80-130 C - less than 0.2% deviation. Well, logr is surprisingly accurate enough. I even considered removing the sender and gauge after 2 trackdays, but will keep them because I'm installing oil coolers. During road driving, it deviates less than 3 C. On track, I noticed Honda's model has a too short time constant. Oil takes a lot longer to get hot and then cool down. After this transient deviation right after starting a hot lap, it's at most 6 C wrong. The FL5 model could be even better.

Btw, at least in the fk8 the calculation doesn't use oil pressure. I suppose it's the same with the fl5, Vito could confirm it.

I just got an adapter for the oil drain plug. So far it seems pretty close. I have only driven it once though. The factory readout got up to 180 a few minutes sooner than the gauge did but by the time I got back to the shop they were within about 10 degrees of each other with the factory readout being 183 and the gauge slightly above 170.

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[Vito.FL5]

Have we found a way to get actual instead of computed oil temperatures? Is there a large variance between the 2?

It´s very doable, the code is there. Just need to borrow the sensor from an FK2, pin it on your ecu and do a few software changes. I have the software part of the solution ready to test, just didn´t have the time or the will to do the other part.

I scanned through this thread but did not read every post. That being said, modern cars run coolant through parallel systems in order to get everything hot as quickly as possible. In the case of emissions, a common manufacturer preference is to run a hotter thermostat since a hotter running block burns more particulates before exiting the exhaust thereby reducing emissions overall but also increasing wear. The FL5 is cool in that respect as it is not running a hot thermostat.

The FL5 on the other hand like many newer cars uses systems piggybacking off of the coolant lines as a means to get components up to operational temperature. After a cold start for example, a parallel system is good to get the transmission up to operational temperature. Where parallel systems tend to later cause issues is once everything has warmed up and certain elements of the system experience more heat/stress over others. Ideal operational temperature points for oil, coolant and transmission fluids are not the same. Using a piggyback off of the coolant lines is not the best option in that particular case. That leads to one wanting to divorce the parallel system which is good but should be done so in a careful manner so as not to disturb design and sensor function. I would hope that anyone going down such a path takes that into consideration.

For a daily driver, the car should be good to go as is. For a track or upgraded car, one really needs to focus on heat dissipation and the cooling system itself first. Hondata or other logging tools can help pinpoint potential issues along the upgrade path. Going full steam ahead with changing many things at once will leave support behind as you have charted your own and different path using the stock system. If you have gotten to the point of wanting to move past that, then you are going to have to contend with big dollar items such as a MoTeC ECU (awesome but requires many sensor calibrations beyond the average driver's interest level), cryogenic treatment, dog gears, etc. depending on your goals.

That was a lot of yapping. I guess my question goes back to the OP's original intention of converting their stock FL5 into a track car. What concerns or limitations on the stock platform were targeted to improve incrementally to observe changes?

You are correct. The system is built to warm up as fast as possible, not to cool down quickly.

Most modern cars are built like this, but they have smarter systems, with electric termostats and water pumps to have the best of both worlds.

 

[siwelnosaj]

Hello everyone, let me introduce myself. My name is Jason Lewis, on IG I go by vroomn_fl5 (formerly fk8). I have the fk8 chassis records at Laguna Seca, Sonoma, and Thunderhill Bypass. I pioneered a cooling set up on the fk8 which worked even with pushing the car like I did, and in my opinion allowed me to push the car like I did. My set up was homemade, but eventually I collaborated with a company called DriveCrazy located in Singapore to help them develop their front mount secondary radiator kit which was essentially a professional commercial revision on my homemade set up. In addition to the secondary radiator I was also using a dual oil cooler setup, again homemade but nothing that crazy really.

Anyways, Laguna ate up my FK8 a couple of weeks ago and now I'm in an FL5. My intention is to fix the overheating issues people are experiencing on track, both to help the community and admittedly to help myself. I am working with DriveCrazy again and we are trying to come up with 2 kits to fix the overheating issues: a secondary radiator, and also a dual oil cooler set up. The challenges of the FL5 vs the FK8 are obvious given there's no fake vents, but we have a couple of ideas we are working on.

So yeah, I just wanted to let everyone know we are actively working on a solution. We are hopeful to get something together within a few months to test on track (maybe by the end of the summer) and then make the necessary revisions. As soon as we have the kits figured out and they are fully available for purchase I will let everyone know. In the meantime I will also be keeping everyone posted with our progress. Currently we are in the brainstorming and basic troubleshooting phase for both kit ideas.

 

[ABPDE5]

Hello everyone, let me introduce myself. My name is Jason Lewis, on IG I go by vroomn_fl5 (formerly fk8). I have the fk8 chassis records at Laguna Seca, Sonoma, and Thunderhill Bypass. I pioneered a cooling set up on the fk8 which worked even with pushing the car like I did, and in my opinion allowed me to push the car like I did. My set up was homemade, but eventually I collaborated with a company called DriveCrazy located in Singapore to help them develop their front mount secondary radiator kit which was essentially a professional commercial revision on my homemade set up. In addition to the secondary radiator I was also using a dual oil cooler setup, again homemade but nothing that crazy really.

Anyways, Laguna ate up my FK8 a couple of weeks ago and now I'm in an FL5. My intention is to fix the overheating issues people are experiencing on track, both to help the community and admittedly to help myself. I am working with DriveCrazy again and we are trying to come up with 2 kits to fix the overheating issues: a secondary radiator, and also a dual oil cooler set up. The challenges of the FL5 vs the FK8 are obvious given there's no fake vents, but we have a couple of ideas we are working on.

So yeah, I just wanted to let everyone know we are actively working on a solution. We are hopeful to get something together within a few months to test on track (maybe by the end of the summer) and then make the necessary revisions. As soon as we have the kits figured out and they are fully available for purchase I will let everyone know. In the meantime I will also be keeping everyone posted with our progress. Currently we are in the brainstorming and basic troubleshooting phase for both kit ideas.

DE5 has vents! Don't forget us!

 

[siwelnosaj]

DE5 has vents! Don't forget us!

I'm sure whatever we develop will easily bolt up to the DE5, so that should be relatively simple.

 

[BigBird]

Hello everyone, let me introduce myself. My name is Jason Lewis, on IG I go by vroomn_fl5 (formerly fk8). I have the fk8 chassis records at Laguna Seca, Sonoma, and Thunderhill Bypass. I pioneered a cooling set up on the fk8 which worked even with pushing the car like I did, and in my opinion allowed me to push the car like I did. My set up was homemade, but eventually I collaborated with a company called DriveCrazy located in Singapore to help them develop their front mount secondary radiator kit which was essentially a professional commercial revision on my homemade set up. In addition to the secondary radiator I was also using a dual oil cooler setup, again homemade but nothing that crazy really.

Anyways, Laguna ate up my FK8 a couple of weeks ago and now I'm in an FL5. My intention is to fix the overheating issues people are experiencing on track, both to help the community and admittedly to help myself. I am working with DriveCrazy again and we are trying to come up with 2 kits to fix the overheating issues: a secondary radiator, and also a dual oil cooler set up. The challenges of the FL5 vs the FK8 are obvious given there's no fake vents, but we have a couple of ideas we are working on.

So yeah, I just wanted to let everyone know we are actively working on a solution. We are hopeful to get something together within a few months to test on track (maybe by the end of the summer) and then make the necessary revisions. As soon as we have the kits figured out and they are fully available for purchase I will let everyone know. In the meantime I will also be keeping everyone posted with our progress. Currently we are in the brainstorming and basic troubleshooting phase for both kit ideas.

Welcome! Not too many stock cars are overheating on track. it's usually the ones running an upgraded intercooler that overheat. Even my tuned FL5 in 90F doing time attack sessions didn't overheat. Will it heat soak, definitely, but it never overheated.

Having a solution where an upgraded intercooler doesn't overheat would definitely be helpful as that would allow consistent lapping for longer.

 

[siwelnosaj]

Welcome! Not too many stock cars are overheating on track. it's usually the ones running an upgraded intercooler that overheat. Even my tuned FL5 in 90F doing time attack sessions didn't overheat. Will it heat soak, definitely, but it never overheated.

Having a solution where an upgraded intercooler doesn't overheat would definitely be helpful as that would allow consistent lapping for longer.

What kind of times are being ran? How many hot laps on the time attack session?

 

[BigBird]

What kind of times are being ran? How many hot laps on the time attack session?

I did podium with just a tune and camber only. I was within 1.5 seconds from the class leading FK8 that was fully built to the class (coils, bbk, downpipe, wider wheels and better 200TW tires, etc.)

Hot laps depends, but was running about 5-8 at pace

 

[siwelnosaj]

I did podium with just a tune and camber only. I was within 1.5 seconds from the class leading FK8 that was fully built to the class (coils, bbk, downpipe, wider wheels and better 200TW tires, etc.)

That's impressive. I'm definitely looking forward to learning more about this platform. What's your tune?

 

[BigBird]

That's impressive. I'm definitely looking forward to learning more about this platform. What's your tune?

I was using the Two Step Tune. Corey is always great. Performed flawlessly.

The only issues is that I learned the fuel tank gauge isn't accurate, so have to make sure you have at least 1/2 tank in there. Otherwise you'll run low on fuel and trip lights, even though the meter shows like 3/8 of a tank.

 

[siwelnosaj]

I was using the Two Step Tune. Corey is always great. Performed flawlessly.

The only issues is that I learned the fuel tank gauge isn't accurate, so have to make sure you have at least 1/2 tank in there. Otherwise you'll run low on fuel and trip lights, even though the meter shows like 3/8 of a tank.

That's not so much that it isn't accurate. That's from sustained g forces in corners and the fuel pump not getting fuel in those situations. That's the same as the fk8

Honestly a half tank is pushing ones luck. I always just fill up.

 

[SimonH]

Some interesting information and feedback here regarding cooling.

I know AIRTEC Motorsport in the UK are just finalising the testing on their uprated cooling package; intercooler, oil cooler, auxiliary radiator and gearbox cooler as they used my car to develop it.

 

[PointByPatrol]

Some interesting information and feedback here regarding cooling.

I know AIRTEC Motorsport in the UK are just finalising the testing on their uprated cooling package; intercooler, oil cooler, auxiliary radiator and gearbox cooler as they used my car to develop it.

I pretty much like everything that I'm seeing here with the exception of the cooler near the intake scoop, otherwise it looks like phenomenal quality! Nice work!

 

[siwelnosaj]

Some interesting information and feedback here regarding cooling.

I know AIRTEC Motorsport in the UK are just finalising the testing on their uprated cooling package; intercooler, oil cooler, auxiliary radiator and gearbox cooler as they used my car to develop it.

I like the ingenuity of their set up. I'm looking forward to hearing their results

 

[J1Avs]

Hello everyone, let me introduce myself. My name is Jason Lewis, on IG I go by vroomn_fl5 (formerly fk8). I have the fk8 chassis records at Laguna Seca, Sonoma, and Thunderhill Bypass....

As others have said, the FL5 doesn't seem to be plagued with the limp modes the FK8 was. At least at stock or neat stock power levels.

I've been testing up in the PNW at Ridge for the past few months trying to evaluate if and what level is needed to run consistently up here in the summer months.

Under 70* ambient -- the car is pretty good for the 20 minute session. It's consistent, power is there.

75* Ambient -- you start to see some higher oil temps in the 260's. IATs got a little higher, car started pulling a few mph on the straight

80*+ Ambient -- Inferred Oil Temps hit 275* in about 4 hot laps at pace. Gauge turns orange per Standard LogR settings. Car starts pulling 10mph after about 3 laps.

Coolant temps stayed in the 220's.

Perfect no -- an improvement. 100%. I'm thinking CSF Radiator or equivalent, and Oil Cooler should do the trick for the PNW climate. Hesitant on an intercooler that's not track tested in conjunction with accompanying radiator.

*Note -- this is with the hood vent's rainguard removed.

Lap Time Context -- running 1:51-52's with pads, rotors, tires, and front camber. Stock everything else. So far fastest FL5 times I've seen at the Ridge.

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