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Head to head comparison of “off the shelf” tunes for a stock fl5 coming soon. (UPDATED WITH INTERIM RESULTS)

Jester04

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I keep hearing conflicting reports on this. Can we get some more feedback? I feel like I've been told the same behavior occurs if you disconnect the battery, etc., and that there are valid explanations (the exception probably being right before you bring it into the dealer).
If engine issues are present they will take a closer look at the ECU. It’s just part of the process at a dealership. It does help if you have an in at the dealership.
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ABPDE5

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If engine issues are present they will take a closer look at the ECU. It’s just part of the process at a dealership. It does help if you have an in at the dealership.
Gotcha.

I am not really personally concerned, just would be nice if there was a clearer general consensus amongst the forum population for those who are.
 

Jester04

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Gotcha.

I am not really personally concerned, just would be nice if there was a clearer general consensus amongst the forum population for those who are.
There should be little to no issues, the K20C has proven itself to be quite reliable.
 

ABPDE5

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There should be little to no issues, the K20C has proven itself to be quite reliable.
Agreed. Just frustrating to see so much conflicting info.

A responsible custom or OTS tune like yours / TSP / etc and everyone should be fine (assuming they aren't trying to get on it at 1500 RPM in 4th or whatever, lol).
 

Jester04

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Agreed. Just frustrating to see so much conflicting info.

A responsible custom or OTS tune like yours / TSP / etc and everyone should be fine (assuming they aren't trying to get on it at 1500 RPM in 4th or whatever, lol).
Honestly the dealer will try to escape just because they don’t want to pay. And technically you are going above what the engine was “designed for”. Luckily replacement K20C’s are not crazy expensive in worst case scenario compared to other products out there that are 15-20k for a complete long block replacement.
 


ABPDE5

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Honestly the dealer will try to escape just because they don’t want to pay. And technically you are going above what the engine was “designed for”. Luckily replacement K20C’s are not crazy expensive in worst case scenario compared to other products out there that are 15-20k for a complete long block replacement.
Yep! And, that's why I wish there was better general knowledge on this. There are (probably) plenty of folks out there with heavily financed cars that are considering tuning w. the impression they can hide it if they need to, and that has the potential to get messy. I'm not try to excuse folks making irresponsible decisions or doing their own risk / reward assessments, etc., but there are a lot of posts here and elsewhere claiming a reflash has you covered, and based on feedback here, that's not the case.

TLDR: I just want everyone to be able to make a well informed decision.

Edit: and, as someone who is bringing an OTS tune and tuning service to market... your straightforwardness on this is commendable. I hope it gets you the good attention you deserve.
 

Jester04

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Yep! And, that's why I wish there was better general knowledge on this. There are (probably) plenty of folks out there with heavily financed cars that are considering tuning w. the impression they can hide it if they need to, and that has the potential to get messy. I'm not try to excuse folks making irresponsible decisions or doing their own risk / reward assessments, etc., but there are a lot of posts here and elsewhere claiming a reflash has you covered, and based on feedback here, that's not the case.

TLDR: I just want everyone to be able to make a well informed decision.

Edit: and, as someone who is bringing an OTS tune and tuning service to market... your straightforwardness on this is commendable. I hope it gets you the good attention you deserve.
Thank you my friend very much appreciated! And I agree, every person’s situation is different so if any concerns regarding warranty they should hold off until warranty expires.

Thank you for the concern for the community!
 

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Honestly the dealer will try to escape just because they don’t want to pay. And technically you are going above what the engine was “designed for”. Luckily replacement K20C’s are not crazy expensive in worst case scenario compared to other products out there that are 15-20k for a complete long block replacement.
Not sure why there is any conflict, everyone would agree I think, YES they can tell if you have jacked with the ECU. The local dealership can tell if the battery has been disconnected but if you blow up your 5k mile motor and the "battery was disconnected" right afterwards they can refuse to cover the warranty just based on that. Burden of proof would be on you. If you push it they will send your ECU off to have it screened at a spot here in the states or in Japan that will tell them unequivocally that the factory ECU settings were messed with. BMW started doing that in the very late 2000's with the advent of all their turbo motors and most of your other manufacturers with big turbo engines like VW/AUDI and Porsche followed suit as so many customers were putting +100hp tunes on their cars.

What they can see is that most of your key sensor reading changed all at the same time, that's a 100% way they know a tune or piggyback may have been used. Its like finding a dead body with a headshot wound, there is no gun but you know what killed them.
 

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Not sure why there is any conflict, everyone would agree I think, YES they can tell if you have jacked with the ECU. The local dealership can tell if the battery has been disconnected but if you blow up your 5k mile motor and the "battery was disconnected" right afterwards they can refuse to cover the warranty just based on that. Burden of proof would be on you. If you push it they will send your ECU off to have it screened at a spot here in the states or in Japan that will tell them unequivocally that the factory ECU settings were messed with. BMW started doing that in the very late 2000's with the advent of all their turbo motors and most of your other manufacturers with big turbo engines like VW/AUDI and Porsche followed suit as so many customers were putting +100hp tunes on their cars.

What they can see is that most of your key sensor reading changed all at the same time, that's a 100% way they know a tune or piggyback may have been used. Its like finding a dead body with a headshot wound, there is no gun but you know what killed them.
There is no conflict, just that some people don’t know so its just better to explain. If you tamper with a stock car be prepared to pay lol.
 

Vito.FL5

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Not sure why there is any conflict, everyone would agree I think, YES they can tell if you have jacked with the ECU. The local dealership can tell if the battery has been disconnected but if you blow up your 5k mile motor and the "battery was disconnected" right afterwards they can refuse to cover the warranty just based on that. Burden of proof would be on you. If you push it they will send your ECU off to have it screened at a spot here in the states or in Japan that will tell them unequivocally that the factory ECU settings were messed with. BMW started doing that in the very late 2000's with the advent of all their turbo motors and most of your other manufacturers with big turbo engines like VW/AUDI and Porsche followed suit as so many customers were putting +100hp tunes on their cars.

What they can see is that most of your key sensor reading changed all at the same time, that's a 100% way they know a tune or piggyback may have been used. Its like finding a dead body with a headshot wound, there is no gun but you know what killed them.

Most of the times they are not that smart.

Most modern ecu's have flash counters, but not every time the dealer has access to it. Others have tuning protections, others have other forms of detecting tunes or flashes that didn't come from a factory tool.

What I can tell is that every form of tune detection is possible to erase lol. You just need proper tools.
 


Vito.FL5

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But still, if you drink, drive and do shit, accept jail.

Its the same with tuning.
 

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Hi folks,

Just FYI I will be sharing the results of dyno testing of some of the top “off the shelf” tunes on a bone stock 2023 FL5 running on 93 octane pump gas. I will also be sharing my impressions from daily driving with the Different tunes.

In this comparison, I will be testing:
- Factory base map
- Hondata 93 Octane Basemap
- Phearable Stage 2 tune
- Two Step Performance Stage 1 tune

Without giving too much away, I have already run this head to head test once in December only to have both the Two Step and Phearable tunes pull some timing out above 6100 rpm. After talking with the tuners, it looks like a potential gas quality issue (running 93 octane but possibly a bad batch) For the benefit of adding to the knowledgebase here, I am planning on returning to the dyno to rerun the tests with different / better gas and see what the results on the end up being. Results below 6100 rpm looked good on all four tunes (no knock detected, no timing pulled).

Just so folks don’t wonder around potential bias. I have paid out of pocket for the tunes - which were purchased direct from vendors the same as any one would. I am also paying for the dyno time, etc. out of pocket. Nor do I have any sort of side hustle or anything with this. I make my living in banking... i just spend it here :). but I really appreciate this community and the folks who take the time to share learnings and insights. And so I am doing this to give a little back with the community.

Timing wise - I look to get the results up sometime later in January after the holidays. More to come.

- Phillip


Any updates on your testing?
 

arbies

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Eagerly awaiting results too... even partial results. My ECU was just shipped off to Hondata.
 

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Eagerly awaiting results too... even partial results. My ECU was just shipped off to Hondata.
This is all I can share since I do not have any other tunes from other companies. But at least you can see stock, Hondata and my custom tune for track duty.

11th Gen Honda Civic Head to head comparison of “off the shelf” tunes for a stock fl5 coming soon. (UPDATED WITH INTERIM RESULTS) IMG_3094


If you need any guidance or any tune requests feel free to send me a DM.
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