Making this car more raw?

[optronix]

Funny you mentioned that. I just bought a BMW and the salesperson flat out said if you've got a CTR you're not going to like a BMW manual. I definitely appreciated the honesty.

Sounds like a good salesman, albeit this is just one data point. But honestly- it's not THAT dramatic of a difference, and also something that can be mitigated if not corrected via the aftermarket.

I like the M3, but the steering in modern M cars (all German manufacturers that don't begin with P actually) is what kills it for me- and one that's far more challenging if not impossible to solve via the aftermarket. I don't know exactly what it is (weight probably plays no small role), but the steering feel in the FL5/DE5 platform is fantastic. It's not like a "benchmark" like Lotus or anything, but it's arguably BETTER than Porsche's electric racks- DEFINITELY better than their first-gen attempts like what's in the 981/991.1. Maybe a touch on the light side, but overall it complements the chassis in all the right ways that make a car "fun to drive", and that the Germans lack, despite their undeniable competence. My DE5 gets all the "feels" right, and it's what makes it the car to have in this segment for me.

But no, "raw" is not what I'd use as a defining characteristic of a modern sports sedan, and as many have said already, any attempts to make it such would surely result in "ruining" the car, for lack of a better word.

An EK9 is "raw". That is what I think of when I think of "raw"... I acknowledge that my DE5 (or any FL5) will ever reach that level of "connectedness", and it's a fool's errand to try IMHO.

As for the Cadillac Blackwings, they didn't quite do it for me either. Part of it is just the simple fact that they're Cadillacs. That's an image thing I could probably get past- but then there's the cost... once I started ticking off options I felt were essential for me, the price quickly got out of hand and I didn't give them a second thought. That said, I still see them on the road and appreciate and acknowledge them- and I do think that despite the weight and heft the CT5BW is a very compelling package that "money no object" I'd have to deeply consider. I would have to think that a cammed, uncorked exhaust CT5BW would be as close as it gets to a "raw" experience in this segment... and from what I understand (without driving one...), the BWs share the platform of the Camaro, which as I understand it has excellent steering.

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[Toprarnen]

Funny you mentioned that. I just bought a BMW and the salesperson flat out said if you've got a CTR you're not going to like a BMW manual. I definitely appreciated the honesty.

Sounds like a good salesman, albeit this is just one data point. But honestly- it's not THAT dramatic of a difference, and also something that can be mitigated if not corrected via the aftermarket.

This is one of those moments where I feel that a test drive is in order before making a decision. I found the manual in the M2 (G87) that I drove to be quite lackluster, and the clutch engagement made me feel like a terrible driver. An aftermarket shifter upgrade would be a must for me - I understand that everyone's different. Kinda cool to have a hobby where preference can be a driver (hur) of many our decisions, and we have the ability to enjoy, based on our preferences!

 

[Miksfield]

What was the impact like on ride quality?

I only installed front lower bushings (not RV6 solid bushings) and there was no change in ride quality. Like I said, the only thing I noticed was some added texture to the steering. Like you can better feel the type of surface you're driving on through the steering wheel. No change in resistance when you're turning or anything else.

 

[Miksfield]

I'd be super interested in installing harder steering bushings but I don't know if thats possible on the FL5. Or changing the code on our electric steering to improve steering feel (like how Mazda changed the steering feel between the Miata ND2 and ND3).

 

[Nothing]

I'd be super interested in installing harder steering bushings but I don't know if thats possible on the FL5. Or changing the code on our electric steering to improve steering feel (like how Mazda changed the steering feel between the Miata ND2 and ND3).

I would think the "texture" as you describe is the goal of harder bushings; the vibration transmitted is indicative of the road surface.

Steering weight would only change with change in programming to (as in comfort vs R+) or elimination of EPS, or increasing wheel offset or other geometry. Maybe @Jester04 can comment if there is further EPS assist parameter available through flashpro.

 

[atucker80]

Sounds like a good salesman, albeit this is just one data point. But honestly- it's not THAT dramatic of a difference, and also something that can be mitigated if not corrected via the aftermarket.

I like the M3, but the steering in modern M cars (all German manufacturers that don't begin with P actually) is what kills it for me- and one that's far more challenging if not impossible to solve via the aftermarket. I don't know exactly what it is (weight probably plays no small role), but the steering feel in the FL5/DE5 platform is fantastic. It's not like a "benchmark" like Lotus or anything, but it's arguably BETTER than Porsche's electric racks- DEFINITELY better than their first-gen attempts like what's in the 981/991.1. Maybe a touch on the light side, but overall it complements the chassis in all the right ways that make a car "fun to drive", and that the Germans lack, despite their undeniable competence. My DE5 gets all the "feels" right, and it's what makes it the car to have in this segment for me.

But no, "raw" is not what I'd use as a defining characteristic of a modern sports sedan, and as many have said already, any attempts to make it such would surely result in "ruining" the car, for lack of a better word.

An EK9 is "raw". That is what I think of when I think of "raw"... I acknowledge that my DE5 (or any FL5) will ever reach that level of "connectedness", and it's a fool's errand to try IMHO.

As for the Cadillac Blackwings, they didn't quite do it for me either. Part of it is just the simple fact that they're Cadillacs. That's an image thing I could probably get past- but then there's the cost... once I started ticking off options I felt were essential for me, the price quickly got out of hand and I didn't give them a second thought. That said, I still see them on the road and appreciate and acknowledge them- and I do think that despite the weight and heft the CT5BW is a very compelling package that "money no object" I'd have to deeply consider. I would have to think that a cammed, uncorked exhaust CT5BW would be as close as it gets to a "raw" experience in this segment... and from what I understand (without driving one...), the BWs share the platform of the Camaro, which as I understand it has excellent steering.

You're spot on with your analysis. My BMW is the absolute opposite of raw. Granted I ended up with the much softer M240 vs the true M. I love it but, I have little to no road feel in the steering wheel. But it's quick and really easy to drive fast. I have bench mark roads and I've found that in many cases I'm going quicker than the type R but not really noticing it. You work for the drive in the CTR. The BMW just does it, and in my opinion this is what makes the CTR the better drivers car. Not raw like some of the cars mentioned, but you're still "driving" the car vs. hitting the go pedal and letting the car sort it out.

 

[Jester04]

I would think the "texture" as you describe is the goal of harder bushings; the vibration transmitted is indicative of the road surface.

Steering weight would only change with change in programming to (as in comfort vs R+) or elimination of EPS, or increasing wheel offset or other geometry. Maybe @Jester04 can comment if there is further EPS assist parameter available through flashpro.

There are no eps features in flashpro just engine related.

 

[HondaHoon]

Spherical bushings EVERYWHERE! Haha

 

[PointByPatrol]

I feel like peoples expectations for this car are insanely unrealistic. It’s a front wheel drive honda civic, it’s not a Porsche gt3 lol. I think things like taking out sound deadening to make the car something it’s not is a bad move. A tune seems like a good idea but besides that idk just get a different car.

It's a GT3BS

 

[SKINNIE]

Don't wear a condom.

 

[Cueyo]

This car will be gone in less than 12 months, maybe sooner. I've seen this limited series many times over. I never understood the concept of modifying a car to the hilt, especially where performance is concerned. You'll never get it where you want it. If you are feeling the urge to go down this path, the universe is telling you to get a different car that can tick more of the boxes for you.

I had to learn this the hard way. My last car was a 24 sport hatch and nearly every single part of the car that could be modified, was modified (minus engine building). The car handled perfectly, at the expense of comfort and daily driveability. I'd been trying so hard to mod the car into being like a CTR that I could've just bought a CTR (which is ultimately what I ended up doing). Now that I'm in the FL5, the urge to mod is still there, but nothing like I'd done before.

 

[PointByPatrol]

I know exactly what OP is talking about when referring to "raw", and I ultimately agree that a stock FL5 misses that mark. In stock form it feels like any normal sedan going down the road, and you can't really appreciate what it actually is until you get it out onto a race track, but even in stock form on a race track it feels like it's missing some of the old 90's pizazz (rawness) that you would expect from a B16, B18 or H22.

I don't have the money, and never will have the money to afford any of those past vehicles that OP has listed, but I have driven a Porsche GTS (I think that's what it was), and I had the same complaint...the car just didn't feel raw, and it didn't feel inspiring. Was it fast...yea, but that isn't the complete picture that I was looking for.

Start with a decent tune, and do nothing else until you've given the tune a good college try. Tossing in a motor mount just makes the car shake at idle, and your kids probably won't appreciate it, hell, you might not either.

If the tune isn't enough for you then move on to some of the more fun bits, and we can give you recommendations for that if you end up needing them.

My FL5 feels incredibly raw, and I love it, but I've spent a lot of money getting it to that point, and thinking back through all of the mods, the biggest factor in changing the personality of the car was the tune, after that I'd say it was the exhaust.

 

[Cueyo]

I know exactly what OP is talking about when referring to "raw", and I ultimately agree that a stock FL5 misses that mark. In stock form it feels like any normal sedan going down the road, and you can't really appreciate what it actually is until you get it out onto a race track, but even in stock form on a race track it feels like it's missing some of the old 90's pizazz (rawness) that you would expect from a B16, B18 or H22.

I don't have the money, and never will have the money to afford any of those past vehicles that OP has listed, but I have driven a Porsche GTS (I think that's what it was), and I had the same complaint...the car just didn't feel raw, and it didn't feel inspiring. Was it fast...yea, but that isn't the complete picture that I was looking for.

Start with a decent tune, and do nothing else until you've given the tune a good college try. Tossing in a motor mount just makes the car shake at idle, and your kids probably won't appreciate it, hell, you might not either.

If the tune isn't enough for you then move on to some of the more fun bits, and we can give you recommendations for that if you end up needing them.

My FL5 feels incredibly raw, and I love it, but I've spent a lot of money getting it to that point, and thinking back through all of the mods, the biggest factor in changing the personality of the car was the tune, after that I'd say it was the exhaust.

What's suspension stuff have you done? I feel like any car I've modded only got raw once some of the comfort was eliminated, which is definitely something I'd like to maintain on the FL5

 

[PointByPatrol]

What's suspension stuff have you done? I feel like any car I've modded only got raw once some of the comfort was eliminated, which is definitely something I'd like to maintain on the FL5

I have the ADS module and EVS ball joints.

 

[Tboneslim]

This car is my extra "fun" car that needs 4 seats in case my dailies ever break down. Usually my fun cars in the past have been 2 seat sports cars (gt3, gt4, gt3rs, r8, 570s, etc) but I've got 2 kids that always need to get driven around these days, hence the 4 seater need. My criteria was something with 4 seats/doors, manual, handle well, holds value, and cheap. So that's the background...

Now.. how do I make this car feel more raw? It drives way too mundane. The engine responsiveness feels sluggish. Any way to liven that up? In the manual porsche world, you can get a lightweight flywheel and that lets the engine rev freely and fast. Is there such a thing available for this engine? I plan to get a tune to at least give this car some more grunt. Other mod plans was to get the motor mount to get more feedback and supposed responsiveness. I also was thinking removing some of the sound deadening. I've already unplugged the stupid fake engine noises. I'm still on the fence for exhaust also. I haven't seen anything that looks good, lightweight, and doesn't sound like a flappy lawnmower revving.

Or am I chasing a dream here?

You could do things such as modify the suspension to increase the steering feedback. For example, add compliance bushings and rear motor mounts. Hope that helped.

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