Manual Transmission Feel

[optronix]

Nah, you’re just a hater, probably in his teens by the sound of it. It’s not the first time you’ve spewed your toxic nonsense, and I’m sure it won’t be the last. Maybe if you grew a spine and moved abroad, you could finally own the cars you have a crush on instead of whining from the comfort of irrelevance.

Yep. You got me. Toxic teenager hating on a GR Yaris you can't stop talking about on a Civic Type R forum.

You in every thread:

"guys my yaris [insert topic of thread here]"

Maybe go to a forum someone cares about your Yaris? Like, a Yaris forum maybe?

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[007]

Yep. You got me. Toxic teenager hating on a GR Yaris you can't stop talking about on a Civic Type R forum.

You in every thread:

"guys my yaris [insert topic of thread here]"

Maybe go to a forum someone cares about your Yaris? Like, a Yaris forum maybe?

Oh really? I only talk about my car in every thread? You’re delusional. Take a second to actually listen to yourself. I honestly have no idea how anyone here puts up with you. You’re clearly drowning in hate and unresolved insecurities—whether it’s about Toyotas or cars in general. Just because someone mentions a different car for comparison doesn’t mean they’re bragging or wrecking your fragile world. This thread was about other cars, including the M2C, which I actually owned, so I chimed in. Meanwhile, all you ever contribute is worthless garbage.

The real shocker isn’t your hate—it’s that you’re still here.

 

[007]

S55 is a great engine. RB on S65 is most likely to fail eventually. Crank hub on S55 is unlikely to happen on a stock car. These two issues are very different - it isn’t splitting hairs.

I understand what you’re getting at, but there’s no concrete proof that the failure rate of S65 bearings is any worse than the S55 crank hub issue—it’s all speculation and hearsay at this point. The primary reason is simply that the S55 is a newer engine (by 8 years). I’ve owned several of the cars being discussed (though not the S65 specifically), but the S54 faced similar hype over rod bearing issues. Over the years, I’ve had many colleagues with these cars, some with well over 100k miles, and none have experienced these failures. The internet, as usual, overreacted and vendors capitalized on that fear, convincing everyone that preemptive rod bearing replacements were necessary.

The idea that the S65 is destined for failure because of its bearings has never been proven. I’ve been in the BMW community for over two decades and I’ve read more about this than I’d like to admit. You’re entitled to your opinion, as am I, but it’s not a universal truth that S65 (or even S54) bearings will inevitably fail prematurely. In fact, most S65 engines out there have not had their bearings replaced, nor will they.

Many believe that if you keep the revs low and gentle until the oil is up to temperature, rod bearing issues are avoidable. Anyone who has driven an S54 or S65 knows these engines take forever to warm up (easily 20+ minutes in cold weather). Tight tolerances and cold oil are a dangerous mix—this has been beat to death. With proper warmup practices, the likelihood of an S65 experiencing rod bearing failure is extremely low.

 

[Acropora]

I understand what you’re getting at, but there’s no concrete proof that the failure rate of S65 bearings is any worse than the S55 crank hub issue—it’s all speculation and hearsay at this point. T

They data will never be released but it's well known that RB issues are way more apparent than CH issues. I am close friends with a very well known shop owner in SoCal who works on European cars. He's done hundreds of RBs on S55's. His sample size is much larger than "many colleagues" and his opinion is that all the RB failure rates are very high, similar to the the inevitable IMS issue with 996/ early 997's. Does it mean they all fail? No. Does this imply that it's some astronomical number of RBs blown? No. But it's a well known, well documented risk. Does it mean there are ways that you can alleviate? Yes. Doesn't change the fact that it's a high risk design flaw for all S55 engines.

 

[007]

They data will never be released but it's well known that RB issues are way more apparent than CH issues. I am close friends with a very well known shop owner in SoCal who works on European cars. He's done hundreds of RBs on S55's. His sample size is much larger than "many colleagues" and his opinion is that all the RB failure rates are very high, similar to the the inevitable IMS issue with 996/ early 997's. Does it mean they all fail? No. Does this imply that it's some astronomical number of RBs blown? No. But it's a well known, well documented risk. Does it mean there are ways that you can alleviate? Yes. Doesn't change the fact that it's a high risk design flaw for all S55 engines.

Surely, you meant the “S65” in your post.

The fact that he’s done hundreds of rod bearing jobs as ‘preventative maintenance’ doesn’t mean those hundreds would have failed—or that any of them would, for that matter. This is just another case of internet-fueled fear that’s been lucratively monetized by people like your ‘close friend,’ who insists it’s an inevitable failure point.

I personally know several reputable BMW techs in the Chicagoland area who take a more balanced approach. They tell it like it is: most rod bearing failures won’t happen on cars that are properly cared for. You can have your opinion on this, and so can I, but there’s zero evidence to suggest rod bearing failures are inevitable. Proper warm-up and regular oil changes mitigate the risk.

Even today, the BMW community is split on whether rod bearings are a ‘must-do’ or just a ‘nice-to-do’ service. Ironically, there’s no shortage of documented rod bearing failures that have happened after the bearings were replaced. No one is denying that the S65’s rod bearings are a point of contention, and yes, some have documented premature wear. But just as many have shared photos of perfectly normal-wearing bearings at 50k or even 100k+ miles.

Draw your own conclusions—I already have.

 

[optronix]

Oh really? I only talk about my car in every thread? You’re delusional. Take a second to actually listen to yourself. I honestly have no idea how anyone here puts up with you. You’re clearly drowning in hate and unresolved insecurities—whether it’s about Toyotas or cars in general. Just because someone mentions a different car for comparison doesn’t mean they’re bragging or wrecking your fragile world. This thread was about other cars, including the M2C, which I actually owned, so I chimed in. Meanwhile, all you ever contribute is worthless garbage.

The real shocker isn’t your hate—it’s that you’re still here.

But... your avatar...

 

[optronix]

First of all, if you think someone’s personal experience with a car is “useless,” you’re missing the entire point of these discussions. Just because you don’t like what someone says doesn’t invalidate it. Not every car fits everyone’s taste, and the F87 M2C is the perfect example of that. If someone already made up his mind that he wants one, he’ll dismiss any criticism and look for feedback that strokes his confirmation bias.

Let’s get something straight: the M2C shifter feel, gear engagement, and clutch action are nowhere near decent. Calling them sloppy is me being kind. The fact that BMW’s been recycling the same garbage shifter since the E46 era is ridiculous. And if someone thinks the M2C has a great shifter feel, they’ve probably never driven something with real feedback and precision. You can dress it up all you want, but it's a numb, heavy, and disconnected experience that leaves a lot to be desired.

Now, as for calling my experience with the GR Yaris “hyperbole,” I doubt you even bothered to read what I said. You don’t have to agree with me, but dismissing it just shows how narrow your view is. There are plenty of people out there who are looking for balanced, honest takes on cars to help them make up their own minds. Telling them everything they read that doesn’t fit your narrative is useless? That’s laughable. Here’s an idea: instead of asking people how something feels, which is highly subjective, OP should go test drive the car himself. It’s the only way he’ll know if it fits his tastes.

The reality is the F87 M2C is not everybody’s cup of tea. To me, it’s one of the most soulless M cars BMW has ever made, and I can only imagine the G87 M2 isn’t far behind. Maybe he’ll love it, maybe he won’t. But comparing it to cars like the Type R or an old M car is a losing battle because BMW hasn’t delivered anything remotely close to that level of engagement in years - arguably since the e9x era.

And if someone’s never driven a real BMW M car from back in the day, then they’re in no position to understand what people like me are talking about. Same goes for the old Type R crowd who say the new FL5 feels disconnected compared to the past. Context matters, and so does reference point. For me, modern cars like the GR Yaris or even the Type R feel more like old-school M cars than anything BMW has made in years.

So, before you write off my take as useless, maybe realize that there are plenty of people who actually value these kinds of perspectives to decide if a car is right for them. Not every opinion will line up with yours, but that doesn’t make it “hyperbole.” That just makes you close-minded.

I somehow missed this whole response. Lol.

Who's blood pressure do you think is higher, mine or yours?

I think stuff like this^ is exactly why I apparently keep coming back to target you. I thought I talked a lot. But when you do it, it's like watching a toddler cry. Christ, stop getting so damn emotional.

 

[007]

But... your avatar...

Oh, of course, having an avatar of any car that isn’t a Type R must be a crime. God forbid anyone dare to appreciate cars beyond your sacred bubble. Once again, you’ve outdone yourself with this brilliant display of ignorance. Makes me wonder how you even make it through the forums without imploding from your own arrogance.

 

[007]

I somehow missed this whole response. Lol.

Who's blood pressure do you think is higher, mine or yours?

I think stuff like this^ is exactly why I apparently keep coming back to target you. I thought I talked a lot. But when you do it, it's like watching a toddler cry. Christ, stop getting so damn emotional.

Wow, you’ve actually made it your goal to ‘target me’? What a spectacular display of obsessive, borderline deranged behavior. It’s pathetic that you get this worked up over someone who simply talks about cars. The fact that you’re so invested in trying to provoke me is just sad. Maybe it’s time to step back and take a good look at who’s really getting emotional here, because it sure seems like you’re projecting.

 

[MooMoo]

Yeah, I guess it depends on the configuration and options. The F87 M2C is quoted at 3,640 lbs with the DCT and around 3,600 lbs without it. The FL5’s weight typically comes in at 3,188 lbs, so that’s a little over a 400 lb difference. As you mentioned, it’s not as much as the GR Yaris, but still a noticeable gap.

This weight difference was a big factor in my decision to replace the M2C. I wanted a fun, new car with a manual that falls into the same curb weight range as the S2000, E30 M3, and GR86 - all of which hover around 2,800 lbs - and was relatively affordable. I even considered a Miata, but unfortunately, I’m too tall for it.

yeah the quoted weight of the m2c is all over the place, people have weighted it at about 3500 for the manual but I can't remember if it was all stock or if it had after market wheels.

Surely, you meant the “S65” in your post.

The fact that he’s done hundreds of rod bearing jobs as ‘preventative maintenance’ doesn’t mean those hundreds would have failed—or that any of them would, for that matter. This is just another case of internet-fueled fear that’s been lucratively monetized by people like your ‘close friend,’ who insists it’s an inevitable failure point.

I personally know several reputable BMW techs in the Chicagoland area who take a more balanced approach. They tell it like it is: most rod bearing failures won’t happen on cars that are properly cared for. You can have your opinion on this, and so can I, but there’s zero evidence to suggest rod bearing failures are inevitable. Proper warm-up and regular oil changes mitigate the risk.

Even today, the BMW community is split on whether rod bearings are a ‘must-do’ or just a ‘nice-to-do’ service. Ironically, there’s no shortage of documented rod bearing failures that have happened after the bearings were replaced. No one is denying that the S65’s rod bearings are a point of contention, and yes, some have documented premature wear. But just as many have shared photos of perfectly normal-wearing bearings at 50k or even 100k+ miles.

Draw your own conclusions—I already have.

you are right, preventative does not mean they will fail but there when you can check the RBs when removed and see signs of wear and from what I gather there are a lot that had signs.

 

[MooMoo]

also you 2 quit it, lets be adults here. We don't have to agree with each other but we can debate shit, its all good we all like different cars and have different opinions

 

[007]

also you 2 quit it, lets be adults here. We don't have to agree with each other but we can debate shit, its all good we all like different cars and have different opinions

Agreed. The irony is, I actually like the Type R just as much as anyone here. After all, we’re all here for the same reason. But I think it’s important to have a reference point and bring other cars into the discussion for comparison. If anything, doing that only reinforces how great the Type R really is. Context and comparisons don’t diminish its value—they highlight just how impressive it is in a broader landscape.

 

[geekatthewheel]

Back to the pedals and shifter, I get a feeling that latest G80/82 and G87 have highly similar feel to that of the F87, I really want to test drive an S2000 now and the manual version of the 992 911 GT3 is king.

you just have to love Japanese engineering, not the interior plastics though...

 

[citrus]

not the interior plastics though...

tbh I love me some cheap Japanese interior plastics. Feels honest somehow. Makes me feel right at home.

 

[geekatthewheel]

tbh I love me some cheap Japanese interior plastics. Feels honest somehow. Makes me feel right at home.

I take it that you have no rattles at all?

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