Trade 718 GT4 for FL5? (There is a reason for the madness...)

[RP2000R]

I also have a PDK GT4 and a FL5. I have had wayyyy too many Hondas and love the FL5 but every time I drive the Porsche it’s such a different experience then the R. I would only sell my GT4 to get a GT3. You can’t buy another new GT4 so be sure you want to part with it before selling.

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[JCZ5]

^Yeah that's my thread that's referenced for the very same 718 I referenced . I didn't end up in an FL5, but I did end up in a DE5. There are distinct differences, I won't try to talk you out of an FL5 if that's what you're set on but a DE5 works better for me personally (it didn't exist at this time last year...). FL5 will probably be better if you're a fan of the seats.

I do agree that hype can be overwhelming and expectations can be set to an unreasonable amount. Seems like that's actually a common thing in our society... so getting some actual seat time is definitely in your best interest.

But also I will double down with your assessment that "as a Porsche owner", this platform grabbed my attention. However, the DE5 exceeded my personal expectations. I have slightly different requirements in that I don't have kids per se (they have their own cars...) but I have a large furry son that I didn't feel comfortable trying to stuff in my Boxster. Having a car that basically does all the same things that isn't as ostentatious and I can fit my dog in is a godsend for me in my current situation (plus I picked the wrong transmission on my 718... ).

I miss some things about the 718 because it was an amazing car (I said "measly" as tongue-in-cheek...) , mostly the noise and the ability to put the roof down. But from a "fun to drive" perspective, I'm just as excited to grab the keys to my ITS as I ever was with any of my past Porsches.

I read the thread end-to-end. I would have to agree with you on the Macan GTS.

Just so I am following correctly, you went to a DE5, but now you have a ITS?

What a nice problem to have. Just pointing out that you can only have 2 kids with the FL5. If you want/have a third, you need another car.

2 kids are more than enough...

Haha fair enough, keep the GT3. Awesome collection of cars. I will say this as an FL5 owner who also has an exotic and other higher end cars... the CTR is a fun car to drive, work on, etc... but I don't know if I'd trade down for one. GT4 is so much better in every way. Use the X5 for the future kids and road trips.

See you say pragmatic things like this and burst my bubble...

One thing I will say, there is no wrong choice they don’t compete in the same category but all are fun cars. Just be prepared from going from amazing induction noise on the GT4 to a vacuum cleaner sound on the FL5.

The FL5 is a great daily, and I have gotten a lot of comments not here but in person about how crazy I was that I switched my M2 for a FL5. Surprisingly here everyone has been very supportive.

Don’t miss the higher end car, the Type R is a better daily and feels very special even though it’s not a crazy expensive car. Also congratulations on achieving all of this by working your butt off. People sometimes don’t take into consideration the sacrifices someone makes to get to their goals. So Kudos to you!

Yeah...sound will be a "downgrade". But I did hear the first resonator delete like the ITS works wonders. And of course, new exhausts or something. But I dont usually mind - it is a "daily" after all.

I use to have a M2, it was so great. But putting myself back in that moment and if the FL5 was around, I probably would chose the FL5. I also agree with you that it is special. I did recall someone said the FL5 will be Honda's last ICE Type R. However, was that from a reliable source? Also, with easing of Euro 7 recently, I wonder if that is still the approach.

Imo, no don't get the GT4 as a daily driver or for the street. Its a waste and complete overkill. I actually want to eventually sell my GT350 and get a GT4 to use as a dedicated track car. Maybe its just me but Im not really a fan using these types of high performance cars for the street. It gets old fast. You aren't able to fully exploit the car without getting into serious trouble. With a GT4 you'll only having a frustrating experience driving the car on the street and it really won't feel that special.

I love my GT350 but Im just loving my CTR so much that my Mustang just collects dust now because its only fun to drive on the street once in a blue moon. I've put on less than 500 miles last year because I just enjoyed the CTR so much. It excels at driving on the street, I honestly really have fallen in love with the philosophy behind hot hatches. The GT350 is not street friendly and unfortunately car's engine will fall apart when you drive it on the track. So I have a high performance car thats related to the street but have another car thats an amazing street car that just does everything better than my Mustang except for just having that V8 sound. I'd be willingly to give that up to have a dedicated track car.

The CTR + GT4 combo or even a GTS + CTR makes more sense to me than having a Cayman GTS + GT4 thats not going to see regular track use, but you do you.

You got an incredible car in the GT350. I get what you say about dailying a "fun" car. But also "fun" car does make some of the mundane errands more interesting. But then again, sometimes the mundane errands are the only time I get to drive my cars.

 

[JCZ5]

I also have a PDK GT4 and a FL5. I have had wayyyy too many Hondas and love the FL5 but every time I drive the Porsche it’s such a different experience then the R. I would only sell my GT4 to get a GT3. You can’t buy another new GT4 so be sure you want to part with it before selling.

That is very true. I mentioned earlier I am only considering selling the GT4 because I have a GT3. Come to think of it, even if I sell the GT3, I probably won't be able to get another either with the allocation games lol

I've seen several pre-owned GT4s for sale in my area for some reason.

2 seat, 2 doors does have its limitations, especially when you have multiple family members/children.

Try to keep the GT4 alongside the FL5 if you can.

Good luck with the decision.

Yup, its fun and great. But you know why performance SUVs are so popular? Because you can bring your whole family and drive it in all situations.

I previously scoffed at folks with performance SUVs when I was younger...now I get it as I become older and have family obligations. But if I do get the FL5, I will have the GT3 as its stablemate.

 

[Jester04]

I read the thread end-to-end. I would have to agree with you on the Macan GTS.

Just so I am following correctly, you went to a DE5, but now you have a ITS?



2 kids are more than enough...



See you say pragmatic things like this and burst my bubble...



Yeah...sound will be a "downgrade". But I did hear the first resonator delete like the ITS works wonders. And of course, new exhausts or something. But I dont usually mind - it is a "daily" after all.

I use to have a M2, it was so great. But putting myself back in that moment and if the FL5 was around, I probably would chose the FL5. I also agree with you that it is special. I did recall someone said the FL5 will be Honda's last ICE Type R. However, was that from a reliable source? Also, with easing of Euro 7 recently, I wonder if that is still the approach.



You got an incredible car in the GT350. I get what you say about dailying a "fun" car. But also "fun" car does make some of the mundane errands more interesting. But then again, sometimes the mundane errands are the only time I get to drive my cars.

I have not missed the M2 at all my friend. Even went to a auto X and posted faster times than a GR supra and a M2 comp so the FL5 is very capable. And a great daily driver, I use mine all the time and its great on gas too.

 

[Fanatic]

That is very true. I mentioned earlier I am only considering selling the GT4 because I have a GT3. Come to think of it, even if I sell the GT3, I probably won't be able to get another either with the allocation games lol



Yup, its fun and great. But you know why performance SUVs are so popular? Because you can bring your whole family and drive it in all situations.

I previously scoffed at folks with performance SUVs when I was younger...now I get it as I become older and have family obligations. But if I do get the FL5, I will have the GT3 as its stablemate.

I have a few Rubicon 392s as my family performance SUVs... They aren't the greatest but my family loves them.

 

[optronix]

I read the thread end-to-end. I would have to agree with you on the Macan GTS.

Just so I am following correctly, you went to a DE5, but now you have a ITS?

DE5 = Integra Type S. My bad for the faux pas- totally dropped an Acura chassis code on a Honda forum!

I guess I could update that old thread that I'm quite pleased with my "downgrade". I enjoy this car more than the 718 in 90% of driving situations. The exceptions being a tight autocross course where I'm not really shifting and a perfect sunny spring/autumn day with the top down.

 

[S4one]

Don’t do it. Keep the GT4 and GT3. I’ve had several 991.1 and 991.2 models non GT but they were miles ahead of my FL5.

 

[optronix]

Don’t do it. Keep the GT4 and GT3. I’ve had several 991.1 and 991.2 models non GT but they were miles ahead of my FL5.

It's not a question of which is the better car. That's clearly obvious. It's what's the better fit. Personally I find multiple cars that offer similar experiences redundant, and useless. At the very least, see if you can swap your GT4 for a Spyder. It at least offers a substantially different experience, if just an even level of practicality. Honestly if money's no object that's what I'd do rather than a CTR. Or a Jeep. Just something different... but that's just me I guess.

The only point I'll agree on with those who'll tell you to keep both cars is the collector angle. But that also depends on what you're "in for", if you follow. If you paid an exorbitant ADM to secure your allocation then the return on that investment isn't going to be very significant, at least not in the near term. And sure, the expectation is that Porsches eventually will go significantly up in value but no one can predict 10, 20+ years from now.

End of the day there are many, MANY ways to take that money and make more with it than "investing" in a sports car.

 

[CTRifecta]

I've had the opportunity to drive both and I must say, the fl5 shifter is better ever so slightly. Everything, I mean everything else performance wise, is better in the gt4

 

[JCZ5]

One observation so far is how many Porsche owners (former or present) have made the switch to the FL5 or DE5 (Thanks @optronix). This shows the true enthusiasts are alive and well. And you're not bound by Porsche is God and everything else sucks lol (over exageration). I don't know if I would get the same response if this was posted on Rennlist.

Second point is the use case / fit. This is equally as important in selecting a suitable vehicle. No use having the "best car" possible when you only get to drive it once a year (unless you are a collector, but that is a different story).

I am still far from ending the journey, after all, I still need to get my hands on a FL5 for a test drive. I did find a FL5 on Turo, but still a hike and will patiently wait when dealers are more flexible.

@optronix - I want to answer your questions and you seem to understand where I am coming from, as you actually made the similar switch...

• Luckily, I did not pay ADM for any of my cars. Although the GT3 went up significantly then when I first specced out the car due to the many price increases - Tangentially, for people waiting to buy a FL5 at MSRP, I am in the same mindset and have always waited patiently for my cars to arrive
• I am a bad investor and I can certainly say my cars will not be great investments in the sense that I drive them. I along with many of you do not have limitless funds. Part of selling the GT4 is freeing up capital that can be used in other manners. Read: Don't need to sell it to support my life, but also need to consider opportunity cost of everything else out there - so again, Optronix you and I aligned here

At the end of the day, this forum provides an open discussion and debate that I cannot have with many of my non-car friends. And living in a city where car transportation is rare, having like-minded discussions are more difficult to come by with people who have the same experience.

Also, the grass is always greener eh? I know some folks have already mentioned, wow must be great owning these special cars. Sure there are benefits, but you know what I am jealous of? Those of you that live near great roads, the ability to do a quick drive in your FL5 after work before dinner or those early morning drives before breakfast . I need to do a lot more planning to take my cars out. And not a lot of great roads around me lol

 

[JCZ5]

I've had the opportunity to drive both and I must say, the fl5 shifter is better ever so slightly. Everything, I mean everything else performance wise, is better in the gt4

I am glad you said that. I spoke with Fenton (Zygrene on Youtube) awhile back and he also mentioned from his perspective, the shifter feels better in the FL5, but the clutch feels better in the Porsche. I guess at this point we're splitting hairs and can say both the FL5 and the GT4 have the closest feeling shifter than the next closest competitors? Well, Miata also have a great shifter, but I would dare to say Honda/Porsche still comes out ahead.

 

[menikmati]

And you're not bound by Porsche is God and everything else sucks lol (over exageration). I don't know if I would get the same response if this was posted on Rennlist.

I definitely got the BMW is God vibe from Bimmerpost when I was waiting for my M2.

 

[optronix]

Yeah there's definitely some unconscious bias on any forum. But there are at least a handful of folks here who can at least relate to owning "higher tier" cars and still being drawn to this platform.

There are many wonderful things about owning a Porsche sports car and I'd be a liar if I said I didn't still want one in my garage (the Macan is great but as I've said many times, it's not on the level of a Porsche sports car). But the ITS/CTR make so much more sense for my situation, it makes it a better car. For me, right now. I firmly believe that.

Perfect world/windfall scenario, I'd get another Porsche but keep the Integra. I have severe car ADD and can't remember the last time I bought a car thinking it would be my "forever car" 6 months into ownership. Possibly my 981 Boxster GTS (GREAT CAR)... but I can't see any foreseeable path that would lead me moving on from this Performance Red Pearl Integra Type S- aside from possibly a PMC Edition, if they go that route.

(Also I am quite enthralled with hybrid sports cars, ever since watching a couple YouTubes on the McLaren Artura... but that's a conversation worthy of another thread)

 

[VarmintCong]

I'll say this about kids - don't buy a car before having kids thinking you'll know what you need. When the kids are babies you're going to have a bucketload of crap - portable bathtub, stroller, pack n play, high chair, diaper bag, god knows what else. You may think you'll be ok with a Civic, you may think "we don't need all that crap", but everything changes when you have that first baby. You'll be using the X5, not a Civic.

Yes, when the kids are older you can think about taking a trip in a Civic, but my wife hating riding in my Sport hatch and the Si, you sit right on the floor and it's bumpy - it's not a comfortable car for passengers - I doubt the Type R is much better.

 

[JCZ5]

I'll say this about kids - don't buy a car before having kids thinking you'll know what you need. When the kids are babies you're going to have a bucketload of crap - portable bathtub, stroller, pack n play, high chair, diaper bag, god knows what else. You may think you'll be ok with a Civic, you may think "we don't need all that crap", but everything changes when you have that first baby. You'll be using the X5, not a Civic.

Yes, when the kids are older you can think about taking a trip in a Civic, but my wife hating riding in my Sport hatch and the Si, you sit right on the floor and it's bumpy - it's not a comfortable car for passengers - I doubt the Type R is much better.

Wow, maybe the most poignant advice on the topic with me rationalizing a 4-door car for the kids lol. Yup...I got nothing to say now

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