How do yall heel toe?

[chopsuey34]

Auto rev-matching isn't perfect, but it's a valuable addition to manuals. My M2C and GRY have proven its benefits. It's not about giving up control; it's about enhancing the experience.

In short, I've shifted from manual purist to embracing auto rev-matching. It hasn't diminished my driving joy; it's enhanced it.

I still prefer manual rev matching and still in the purist point in my life, but I like your statement about enhancing the experience. It's good that the the option exists and that people can turn auto-revving on or off depending on environment. If I was commuting through Chicago and was stuck in a horrific traffic jam every day, auto rev-match would be the first thing I turn back on to make the manual experience more palpable. During weekends, I could go full purist to enjoy the reason why manuals still exist.

It's not the 20th century anymore. Manuals can move with the times, too.

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[TypeRD]

Good take @chopsuey34

I’m glad this thread didn’t turn into “If you don’t heel-toe at all times, you don’t know how to drive your car,” because that’s simply not true. Auto-rev is a great feature that can be useful for novices and experts alike.

 

[Jester04]

Good take @chopsuey34

I’m glad this thread didn’t turn into “If you don’t heel-toe at all times, you don’t know how to drive your car,” because that’s simply not true. Auto-rev is a great feature that can be useful for novices and experts alike.

yeah it is very useful, I fully support it, if all my cars had rev matching I would use it. And I’m a big time purist, but you have to make concessions and face the truth. The machines do it better than us. But at that point I also like to have some involvement. So manual with rev matching is as far as I go. These days automatic or dct cars are faster than a manual. But I would rather be slower and enjoy my drive than do ones of those soul less cars (this is my opinion don’t read into it). I really miss the days where you would actually have to put in work to improve as a driver and actually enjoy the experience when you got better. That feeling of when you finally get something right is so hard to find now in the car scene. You used to be able to outdrive your opponent and become more in tune with the machine. Now its all flappy paddles and everybody can run 10 second 1/4 miles with 0 skill.

 

[Jester04]

I still prefer manual rev matching and still in the purist point in my life, but I like your statement about enhancing the experience. It's good that the the option exists and that people can turn auto-revving on or off depending on environment. If I was commuting through Chicago and was stuck in a horrific traffic jam every day, auto rev-match would be the first thing I turn back on to make the manual experience more palpable. During weekends, I could go full purist to enjoy the reason why manuals still exist.

It's not the 20th century anymore. Manuals can move with the times, too.

What I like the most is that the user can choose, when its mandated by the manufacturer is when it annoys me. Used to annoy the hell out of me on my M2. I used to drive around with all driving aids off to disable rev matching until I tuned it.

 

[TypeRD]

@Jester04 A friend of mine and I had this discussion several years ago when high performance automatics were getting REALLY good. We concluded that the transmission type doesn’t matter as long as it is ADDITIVE to the driving experience. As you’ve noted, autos still don’t hit that mark regardless of how great they’ve become. Let’s face it, unless you’re a race car driver, having an amazing automatic trans sort of defeats the entire point for the majority of us.

 

[Jester04]

@Jester04 A friend of mine and I had this discussion several years ago when high performance automatics were getting REALLY good. We concluded that the transmission type doesn’t matter as long as it is ADDITIVE to the driving experience. As you’ve noted, autos still don’t hit that mark regardless of how great they’ve become. Let’s face it, unless you’re a race car driver, having an amazing automatic trans sort of defeats the entire point for the majority of us.

Yeah I agree, they have come a long way. And yeah I agree as long as it adds to the experience its good also. But at least in my opinion hitting a flappy paddle does nothing for me. The only auto car I own is the TRX and I really wished they offered a manual like the old srt-10 trucks.

If you are a serious racer and looking for lap times then auto is the way to go. And just like your friend I have had this discussion with friends that are really big fans of the Porsche PDK transmissions. I drove a few and came out like meh, its really quick but at least for me it doesn’t do it. I like rowing my own gears.

Same reason the GT3RS is out of the bucket list for me. They used to offer manuals now its just about lap times. What about the people that wanted the cool race car with a giant wing but with a 3rd pedal?

 

[TW00Si]

Like the discussion. I’m in agreement for ease of use with auto rev match and that no human can do it perfectly as the computer would. I try my best with heel toe at the track with my S2000 but most of the time I’m just (way) over blipping. I would say that my friends aren’t wrong saying auto rev match will make me lazy because the last time I drove my S2000 on the street with my wife, I forgot twice to heal toe and the car just lunged. My wife was like wth…
But it’s just easy to use and like others, I’m not a race car driver. I just track occasionally. It’s fine to have auto rev match on.

 

[Jester04]

Like the discussion. I’m in agreement for ease of use with auto rev match and that no human can do it perfectly as the computer would. I try my best with heel toe at the track with my S2000 but most of the time I’m just (way) over blipping. I would say that my friends aren’t wrong saying auto rev match will make me lazy because the last time I drove my S2000 on the street with my wife, I forgot twice to heal toe and the car just lunged. My wife was like wth…
But it’s just easy to use and like others, I’m not a race car driver. I just track occasionally. It’s fine to have auto rev match on.

yeah the habit becomes strong. That you do it automatically.

 

[TypeRD]

Yuuuuup! I’ve done the same. I’ve gotten really used to auto rev match on, but have driven for awhile with it off and made the car lunge a couple of times (because I forgot I turned it off). It was then that I was like…auto rev match is so smooth and convenient (especially for casual driving) I’m just gonna leave it on!

 

[urbo73]

Good take @chopsuey34

I’m glad this thread didn’t turn into “If you don’t heel-toe at all times, you don’t know how to drive your car,” because that’s simply not true. Auto-rev is a great feature that can be useful for novices and experts alike.

LOL, yes, and "Always downshift in a straight line!" - These things come from racing, not for street driving. Heel-toe is good on track - not needed on the street. Just blip throttle is all. Or youse auto-rev match.

 

[VarmintCong]

Honestly thats kind of the point for heel toe downshifting, its an advanced driving technique kind of like left foot braking! I remember trying to learn how to heel toe downshift on the street and it felt so awkward. Had this same exact issue as you and got so confused. My first time at the track I tried again it and it only took me a few tries before I got it down. Honestly its SOOOO much easier to heel toe downshift when you can just slam on the brakes. On track you'll be flying and it'll be way easier to heel-toe because you be slamming on your brakes

I found that its way harder to do it on the street. Its awkward to be soft on the brake pedal and hit the gas pedal simultaneously. If I'm going really fast and on an exit ramp with nobody near me then I'll try it. I don't do it when people are near me because I'd be brake checking them lmao. I wouldn't stress about it too much, you'd learn it very quickly if you practiced it at a track, its meant to be used when you are going really fast and need to brake. Not when you are going 45MPH and approaching a stoplight or have a little gap to do a WOT pull.

Same for me, BMW makes a big gas pedal close to the brake, very easy to blip with the right side of your foot. But even thenI needed the deep braking on track to do it easily.

I could never heel and toe Hondas with the tiny gas pedal so far away. If you watch Best Motoring videos the Japanese rotate their heel way up - my foot is too long to even try that, and my knee won’t rotate like that .

 

[VarmintCong]

Yuuuuup! I’ve done the same. I’ve gotten really used to auto rev match on, but have driven for awhile with it off and made the car lunge a couple of times (because I forgot I turned it off). It was then that I was like…auto rev match is so smooth and convenient (especially for casual driving) I’m just gonna leave it on!

I assume the auto rev match physically moves the gas pedal? I think the auto cruise in my Si moved the pedal if I remember right.

 

[VarmintCong]

Yeah I agree, they have come a long way. And yeah I agree as long as it adds to the experience its good also. But at least in my opinion hitting a flappy paddle does nothing for me. The only auto car I own is the TRX and I really wished they offered a manual like the old srt-10 trucks.

If you are a serious racer and looking for lap times then auto is the way to go. And just like your friend I have had this discussion with friends that are really big fans of the Porsche PDK transmissions. I drove a few and came out like meh, its really quick but at least for me it doesn’t do it. I like rowing my own gears.

Same reason the GT3RS is out of the bucket list for me. They used to offer manuals now its just about lap times. What about the people that wanted the cool race car with a giant wing but with a 3rd pedal?

europeans don’t seem to like manuals in their high performance cars, I’m not sure why. BMW M has kept the manuals around cause Americans want them, not Europeans.

maybe manuals are for peons in Europe since they’re still common in cheap cars. European reviewers still seem to like manuals though.

 

[urbo73]

europeans don’t seem to like manuals in their high performance cars, I’m not sure why. BMW M has kept the manuals around cause Americans want them, not Europeans.

maybe manuals are for peons in Europe since they’re still common in cheap cars. European reviewers still seem to like manuals though.

I'm all for manuals, but on most high performance cars, having only 6 gears doesn't work well - too long/tall. The engines are tuned to work with dual-clutch/auto boxes now for the most part. If you want a manual M3 for example, you get a lower-powered engine. So yeah, I would never take that M3. Just one example. Cayman and 911s are the same.

 

[Jester04]

europeans don’t seem to like manuals in their high performance cars, I’m not sure why. BMW M has kept the manuals around cause Americans want them, not Europeans.

maybe manuals are for peons in Europe since they’re still common in cheap cars. European reviewers still seem to like manuals though.

The most reasonable explanation for this is that the automatics offer better performance so it makes sense when making a sports car. But like most european manufacturers they are concerned with the times they post. Oh look how quick this car goes around the ring.

I think people have forgotten the joy that just driving a car brings. Also people tend to buy more automatics so investing in designing a manual to fit a platform is not a smart business decision.

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