Anything better than ps4 on the street

[johnloov]

Indeed ChatGPT hallucinates a lot...

I found that the best is SuperGrock in DeeperSearch mode (not "Think" which does hallucinate a bit)

I asked SuperGrok in DeeperSearch:

Research if Honda collaborated and worked with Michelin to develop "custom" or "specialized" variation of the Pilot Sport 4 S for the 11th Generation FL5 Honda Type R

also, if there are indeed two variations (generic and Type R specific) of the Pilot Sport 4 S in 265/30ZR19 what are their respective markings and part numbers

here is Grok's answer, seems non-committal with lots of "possibly" and "likely"

### Key Points
- Research suggests Honda and Michelin collaborated to develop a custom Pilot Sport 4 S tire for the FL5 Honda Type R.
- It seems likely there are two variations (generic and Type R specific) in 265/30ZR19 size, with the Type R version possibly marked "DT1."
- The evidence leans toward the generic tire having part number 79569, while the Type R specific tire's part number (possibly 08161) is less certain.

### Tire Collaboration and Variations
Honda likely worked with Michelin to create a specialized Pilot Sport 4 S tire for the FL5 Type R, given the performance focus of the vehicle and industry practices for OE tires. This collaboration typically involves tailoring tire compounds and construction for specific vehicle dynamics, as seen with other manufacturers like BMW. The generic version is widely available for aftermarket purchase, while the Type R specific tire is designed for factory fitment, potentially with enhanced grip and handling characteristics.

### Markings and Part Numbers
The Type R specific tire appears to be marked with "DT1," a designation often used for OE-specific variants with slight differences in tread pattern or compound, based on forum discussions. The generic tire's part number is confirmed as 79569, found on retailer listings like Summit Racing. However, the Type R specific tire's part number, believed to be 08161, could not be verified through standard searches, suggesting it might be a dealer-specific or internal code.

---

### Survey Note: Detailed Analysis of Honda and Michelin Collaboration for FL5 Type R Tires

This detailed analysis explores the collaboration between Honda and Michelin for developing a custom or specialized variation of the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S tire for the 11th Generation FL5 Honda Civic Type R, focusing on the 265/30ZR19 size.

#### Background on Honda and Michelin Collaboration
The FL5 Honda Civic Type R, launched in 2023, is equipped with 19-inch alloy wheels and Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S tires in the 265/30ZR19 size, as noted in official Honda documentation [Honda Info Center - Wheels and Tires](https://www.hondainfocenter.com/2023/Civic-Type-R/Feature-Guide/Exterior-Features/Wheels-and-Tires/). Industry practices suggest that for high-performance vehicles like the Type R, tire manufacturers often collaborate with automakers to develop OE-specific tires. This is supported by evidence from Carscoops, which discusses how Michelin develops marked tires for brands like BMW, with the Pilot Sport 4S* being a BMW-approved evolution [Carscoops - OE Tires Difference](https://www.carscoops.com/2021/06/yes-original-equipment-oe-tires-do-make-a-difference-and-heres-why/). While direct statements on Honda-Michelin collaboration for the FL5 are scarce, the tailored performance of the tire (described as "super-sticky maximum-performance" by Honda) implies a custom development, likely involving adjustments in compound and construction for optimal grip and handling.

Forum discussions, such as on CivicXI, highlight differences between OE and retail versions, with users noting cost disparities and potential variations in tread depth [CivicXI Forum - Pilot Sport 4S OE vs Retail Pricing](https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/pilot-sport-4s-oe-vs-retail-pricing.55373/). This suggests a specialized tire for the Type R, aligning with the user's query about collaboration.

#### Existence of Two Variations
The evidence leans toward there being two variations of the Pilot Sport 4 S in 265/30ZR19: a generic aftermarket version and a Type R specific OE version. The generic version is widely listed on retailer sites like Summit Racing with part number 79569, confirmed for the 265/30R19 size with specifications including a 300AAA UTQG rating and 9/32 or 9.5/32 tread depths depending on manufacturing location [Summit Racing - Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S 265/30R19](https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mhl-79569). The OE version, used on the FL5, is referenced in forum posts with a Honda part number 42751-MIC-174, indicating a dealer-sourced tire at a lower cost ($212 vs. $355–$387 for retail), suggesting differences in specification [CivicXI Forum - Pilot Sport 4S OE vs Retail Pricing](https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/pilot-sport-4s-oe-vs-retail-pricing.55373/).

Reddit discussions and tire review sites mention a "DT1" variant of the Pilot Sport 4S, noted for slight differences in tread pattern, compounds, and manufacturing origin, potentially offering tighter handling and performance, especially in wet conditions [Reddit - Michelin Pilot Sport 4S DT1 or Standard](https://www.reddit.com/r/tires/comments/1jccq0k/michelin_pilot_sport_4s_dt1_or_standard/). While not explicitly stated for Honda, the user's belief and forum context suggest the Type R tire is the DT1 version, given its performance focus.

#### Markings: DT1 for Type R Specific Tire
The Type R specific tire is likely marked with "DT1," based on the user's belief and supporting forum and Reddit discussions. The DT1 marking is associated with OE-specific tires, with reports indicating differences like a slightly smaller sidewall height and potentially stiffer construction for enhanced handling [Reddit - Michelin Pilot Sport 4S DT1 or Standard](https://www.reddit.com/r/GLI/comments/1jccdq2/michelin_pilot_sport_4s_dt1_or_standard/). A forum post on Focus RS also notes DT1 relates to tread design for specific vehicle models, supporting the idea that it's used for the Type R [Focus RS Forum - Michelin Pilot Sport 4S Help](https://www.focusrsoc.com/threads/michelin-pilot-sport-4s-help.379024/). The generic tire, conversely, does not have this marking, as seen in standard listings like part number 79569.

#### Part Numbers: Generic and Type R Specific
The generic Pilot Sport 4 S 265/30ZR19 has a confirmed part number of 79569, listed on sites like Summit Racing and Tires Easy, with detailed specifications [Summit Racing - Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S 265/30R19](https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mhl-79569), [Tires Easy - Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 265/30R19](https://www.tires-easy.com/265-30-19/michelin-tires/pilot-sport-4s/tirecode/79569). The Honda part number 42751-MIC-174, mentioned in the forum, is likely the OE part number, but its corresponding Michelin part number remains unconfirmed [CivicXI Forum - Pilot Sport 4S OE vs Retail Pricing](https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/pilot-sport-4s-oe-vs-retail-pricing.55373/). Given the user's uncertainty and lack of verification, it's reasonable to note that the Type R specific tire's part number is likely different but not definitively 08161.

#### Table: Comparison of Generic and Type R Specific Pilot Sport 4 S Tires
| Aspect | Generic Version | Type R Specific Version |
|-------------------------|------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------|
| Marking | No DT1 marking | Likely marked with DT1 |
| Part Number | 79569 (confirmed) | Possibly 08161 (unconfirmed) |
| Availability | Aftermarket, retailers like Tire Rack | OE, dealer-sourced (Honda part 42751-MIC-174) |
| Tread Depth | 9/32 or 9.5/32 (varies by origin) | Likely different, specifics unknown |
| Cost (per tire, USD) | $355–$387 (retail) | ~$212 (OE, dealer) |

#### Conclusion and Follow-Up Questions
Research suggests Honda and Michelin collaborated to develop a custom Pilot Sport 4 S for the FL5 Type R, with the Type R specific tire likely marked DT1 and having a different part number from the generic 79569, possibly 08161 as the user believes, though not confirmed. The evidence supports the existence of two variations, with differences in marking and likely performance tuning. For further clarity, consider the following follow-up questions:
- Have you checked with a Honda dealer for the exact Michelin part number for the OE tire?
- Are you looking to purchase replacement tires, and if so, do you need aftermarket or OE specifications?
- Would you like assistance in finding retailer listings for the generic tire with part number 79569?

This detailed analysis aims to provide a comprehensive understanding, inviting further exploration based on your needs.

---

### Key Citations
- [CivicXI Forum Post on Pilot Sport 4S OE vs Retail Pricing](https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/pilot-sport-4s-oe-vs-retail-pricing.55373/)
- [Carscoops Article on OE Tires Making a Difference](https://www.carscoops.com/2021/06/yes-original-equipment-oe-tires-do-make-a-difference-and-heres-why/)
- [Michelin Page on Marked Tires](https://www.michelinman.com/auto/auto-tips-and-advice/tire-buying-guide/michelin-developed-marked-tires)
- [Summit Racing Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S 265/30R19](https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mhl-79569)
- [Tires Easy Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 265/30R19](https://www.tires-easy.com/265-30-19/michelin-tires/pilot-sport-4s/tirecode/79569)
- [Honda Info Center Wheels and Tires](https://www.hondainfocenter.com/2023/Civic-Type-R/Feature-Guide/Exterior-Features/Wheels-and-Tires/)
- [Reddit Discussion on Michelin Pilot Sport 4S DT1](https://www.reddit.com/r/tires/comments/1jccq0k/michelin_pilot_sport_4s_dt1_or_standard/)
- [Reddit Discussion on Michelin Pilot Sport 4S DT1 for GLI](https://www.reddit.com/r/GLI/comments/1jccdq2/michelin_pilot_sport_4s_dt1_or_standard/)
- [Focus RS Forum on Michelin Pilot Sport 4S Help](https://www.focusrsoc.com/threads/michelin-pilot-sport-4s-help.379024/)

The Honda OEM spec 4S DT1 is still amazing on road and track and I was able to stock up on them as they liquidated the 2022 stock. I was only ~1 second faster at Laguna Seca on Cup2 Connects vs. DT1 OEM 4s which is designed with higher performance for Type R than normal 4S. Sometime you can check the OE spec tires - they liquidate stock at Tire rack - and same thing happened when I owned an Alfa 4C. The OE spec tires they liquidate at the end of their shelf life, but they still have another 7 years they should be good for if they are stored in garage. Got these for $138.87 - Even if it said out of stock, I just purchased, and waited and they shipped a week later. Maybe I should have gotten more ). Always check the Special/Closeout deals - always killer tires are there for purchase Enjoy

Sponsored

 

[optronix]

Indeed ChatGPT hallucinates a lot...

I found that the best is SuperGrock in DeeperSearch mode (not "Think" which does hallucinate a bit)

I asked SuperGrok in DeeperSearch:

Research if Honda collaborated and worked with Michelin to develop "custom" or "specialized" variation of the Pilot Sport 4 S for the 11th Generation FL5 Honda Type R

also, if there are indeed two variations (generic and Type R specific) of the Pilot Sport 4 S in 265/30ZR19 what are their respective markings and part numbers

here is Grok's answer, seems non-committal with lots of "possibly" and "likely"

### Key Points
- Research suggests Honda and Michelin collaborated to develop a custom Pilot Sport 4 S tire for the FL5 Honda Type R.
- It seems likely there are two variations (generic and Type R specific) in 265/30ZR19 size, with the Type R version possibly marked "DT1."
- The evidence leans toward the generic tire having part number 79569, while the Type R specific tire's part number (possibly 08161) is less certain.

### Tire Collaboration and Variations
Honda likely worked with Michelin to create a specialized Pilot Sport 4 S tire for the FL5 Type R, given the performance focus of the vehicle and industry practices for OE tires. This collaboration typically involves tailoring tire compounds and construction for specific vehicle dynamics, as seen with other manufacturers like BMW. The generic version is widely available for aftermarket purchase, while the Type R specific tire is designed for factory fitment, potentially with enhanced grip and handling characteristics.

### Markings and Part Numbers
The Type R specific tire appears to be marked with "DT1," a designation often used for OE-specific variants with slight differences in tread pattern or compound, based on forum discussions. The generic tire's part number is confirmed as 79569, found on retailer listings like Summit Racing. However, the Type R specific tire's part number, believed to be 08161, could not be verified through standard searches, suggesting it might be a dealer-specific or internal code.

---

### Survey Note: Detailed Analysis of Honda and Michelin Collaboration for FL5 Type R Tires

This detailed analysis explores the collaboration between Honda and Michelin for developing a custom or specialized variation of the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S tire for the 11th Generation FL5 Honda Civic Type R, focusing on the 265/30ZR19 size.

#### Background on Honda and Michelin Collaboration
The FL5 Honda Civic Type R, launched in 2023, is equipped with 19-inch alloy wheels and Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S tires in the 265/30ZR19 size, as noted in official Honda documentation [Honda Info Center - Wheels and Tires](https://www.hondainfocenter.com/2023/Civic-Type-R/Feature-Guide/Exterior-Features/Wheels-and-Tires/). Industry practices suggest that for high-performance vehicles like the Type R, tire manufacturers often collaborate with automakers to develop OE-specific tires. This is supported by evidence from Carscoops, which discusses how Michelin develops marked tires for brands like BMW, with the Pilot Sport 4S* being a BMW-approved evolution [Carscoops - OE Tires Difference](https://www.carscoops.com/2021/06/yes-original-equipment-oe-tires-do-make-a-difference-and-heres-why/). While direct statements on Honda-Michelin collaboration for the FL5 are scarce, the tailored performance of the tire (described as "super-sticky maximum-performance" by Honda) implies a custom development, likely involving adjustments in compound and construction for optimal grip and handling.

Forum discussions, such as on CivicXI, highlight differences between OE and retail versions, with users noting cost disparities and potential variations in tread depth [CivicXI Forum - Pilot Sport 4S OE vs Retail Pricing](https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/pilot-sport-4s-oe-vs-retail-pricing.55373/). This suggests a specialized tire for the Type R, aligning with the user's query about collaboration.

#### Existence of Two Variations
The evidence leans toward there being two variations of the Pilot Sport 4 S in 265/30ZR19: a generic aftermarket version and a Type R specific OE version. The generic version is widely listed on retailer sites like Summit Racing with part number 79569, confirmed for the 265/30R19 size with specifications including a 300AAA UTQG rating and 9/32 or 9.5/32 tread depths depending on manufacturing location [Summit Racing - Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S 265/30R19](https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mhl-79569). The OE version, used on the FL5, is referenced in forum posts with a Honda part number 42751-MIC-174, indicating a dealer-sourced tire at a lower cost ($212 vs. $355–$387 for retail), suggesting differences in specification [CivicXI Forum - Pilot Sport 4S OE vs Retail Pricing](https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/pilot-sport-4s-oe-vs-retail-pricing.55373/).

Reddit discussions and tire review sites mention a "DT1" variant of the Pilot Sport 4S, noted for slight differences in tread pattern, compounds, and manufacturing origin, potentially offering tighter handling and performance, especially in wet conditions [Reddit - Michelin Pilot Sport 4S DT1 or Standard](https://www.reddit.com/r/tires/comments/1jccq0k/michelin_pilot_sport_4s_dt1_or_standard/). While not explicitly stated for Honda, the user's belief and forum context suggest the Type R tire is the DT1 version, given its performance focus.

#### Markings: DT1 for Type R Specific Tire
The Type R specific tire is likely marked with "DT1," based on the user's belief and supporting forum and Reddit discussions. The DT1 marking is associated with OE-specific tires, with reports indicating differences like a slightly smaller sidewall height and potentially stiffer construction for enhanced handling [Reddit - Michelin Pilot Sport 4S DT1 or Standard](https://www.reddit.com/r/GLI/comments/1jccdq2/michelin_pilot_sport_4s_dt1_or_standard/). A forum post on Focus RS also notes DT1 relates to tread design for specific vehicle models, supporting the idea that it's used for the Type R [Focus RS Forum - Michelin Pilot Sport 4S Help](https://www.focusrsoc.com/threads/michelin-pilot-sport-4s-help.379024/). The generic tire, conversely, does not have this marking, as seen in standard listings like part number 79569.

#### Part Numbers: Generic and Type R Specific
The generic Pilot Sport 4 S 265/30ZR19 has a confirmed part number of 79569, listed on sites like Summit Racing and Tires Easy, with detailed specifications [Summit Racing - Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S 265/30R19](https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mhl-79569), [Tires Easy - Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 265/30R19](https://www.tires-easy.com/265-30-19/michelin-tires/pilot-sport-4s/tirecode/79569). The Honda part number 42751-MIC-174, mentioned in the forum, is likely the OE part number, but its corresponding Michelin part number remains unconfirmed [CivicXI Forum - Pilot Sport 4S OE vs Retail Pricing](https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/pilot-sport-4s-oe-vs-retail-pricing.55373/). Given the user's uncertainty and lack of verification, it's reasonable to note that the Type R specific tire's part number is likely different but not definitively 08161.

#### Table: Comparison of Generic and Type R Specific Pilot Sport 4 S Tires
| Aspect | Generic Version | Type R Specific Version |
|-------------------------|------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------|
| Marking | No DT1 marking | Likely marked with DT1 |
| Part Number | 79569 (confirmed) | Possibly 08161 (unconfirmed) |
| Availability | Aftermarket, retailers like Tire Rack | OE, dealer-sourced (Honda part 42751-MIC-174) |
| Tread Depth | 9/32 or 9.5/32 (varies by origin) | Likely different, specifics unknown |
| Cost (per tire, USD) | $355–$387 (retail) | ~$212 (OE, dealer) |

#### Conclusion and Follow-Up Questions
Research suggests Honda and Michelin collaborated to develop a custom Pilot Sport 4 S for the FL5 Type R, with the Type R specific tire likely marked DT1 and having a different part number from the generic 79569, possibly 08161 as the user believes, though not confirmed. The evidence supports the existence of two variations, with differences in marking and likely performance tuning. For further clarity, consider the following follow-up questions:
- Have you checked with a Honda dealer for the exact Michelin part number for the OE tire?
- Are you looking to purchase replacement tires, and if so, do you need aftermarket or OE specifications?
- Would you like assistance in finding retailer listings for the generic tire with part number 79569?

This detailed analysis aims to provide a comprehensive understanding, inviting further exploration based on your needs.

---

### Key Citations
- [CivicXI Forum Post on Pilot Sport 4S OE vs Retail Pricing](https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/pilot-sport-4s-oe-vs-retail-pricing.55373/)
- [Carscoops Article on OE Tires Making a Difference](https://www.carscoops.com/2021/06/yes-original-equipment-oe-tires-do-make-a-difference-and-heres-why/)
- [Michelin Page on Marked Tires](https://www.michelinman.com/auto/auto-tips-and-advice/tire-buying-guide/michelin-developed-marked-tires)
- [Summit Racing Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S 265/30R19](https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mhl-79569)
- [Tires Easy Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 265/30R19](https://www.tires-easy.com/265-30-19/michelin-tires/pilot-sport-4s/tirecode/79569)
- [Honda Info Center Wheels and Tires](https://www.hondainfocenter.com/2023/Civic-Type-R/Feature-Guide/Exterior-Features/Wheels-and-Tires/)
- [Reddit Discussion on Michelin Pilot Sport 4S DT1](https://www.reddit.com/r/tires/comments/1jccq0k/michelin_pilot_sport_4s_dt1_or_standard/)
- [Reddit Discussion on Michelin Pilot Sport 4S DT1 for GLI](https://www.reddit.com/r/GLI/comments/1jccdq2/michelin_pilot_sport_4s_dt1_or_standard/)
- [Focus RS Forum on Michelin Pilot Sport 4S Help](https://www.focusrsoc.com/threads/michelin-pilot-sport-4s-help.379024/)

I noticed the same thing; the LLMs all seem to reference the same forums we lurk in because they're easy to scrape. Try scraping an automotive journalist website, especially one with paywalls. I have and it's a rabbit hole (although Motor Trend is interestingly pretty friendly to automated scraping...). The LLMs can only reference what they can see or are trained on. Information from internet randos is not what I'd call a "source of truth"- but is a treasure trove for things like sentiment analysis.

Google ironically has better visibility than LLMs in this regard.

Maybe some better prompt engineering could yield better results... but I lost interest. The DT1 is the correct designation, at least it got that part right where the old ass GTP-4o model tried to say Hyundai was Honda.

 

[blueroadster]

Unfortunately end-user dependence on AI results in cognitive decline in many areas and aids in transitioning humans into mere minions without developing individual critical thinking abilities. MIT Research Paper: Your Brain on ChatGPT.

The one room bogon vs cluon perspective is rendered obsolete. Put your aluminum hats to the side.

 

[Sporky McGeuschky]

Unfortunately end-user dependence on AI results in cognitive decline in many areas and aids in transitioning humans into mere minions without developing individual critical thinking abilities. MIT Research Paper: Your Brain on ChatGPT.

The one room bogon vs cluon perspective is rendered obsolete. Put your aluminum hats to the side.

I was holding out for a comment like this.
I try to avoid using AI as much as possible, that is, if I can even recognize whether a thing is even AI or not (???).

Of course, I'm the guy who does his best to avoid reading in general, and who also wants to ultimately figure out a way to get his FL5:

1.) All Wheel Drive,
2.) Off Road!, and ...
3.) Jumping over the river! Yeee Haaw!

... so I'm probably not the best example of "human intelligence".

 

[powerofdreams]

The press release from Honda says they're bespoke, so I would be inclined to believe that. There's some other good technical info in there, too. https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-a...d0f70179fdc-2023-honda-civic-type-r-press-kit

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