Eneos oil..

[Evox787]

So has begun and gates just open for a 3k pages tread! Because google affirm the bias of each!

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[Spart]

So has begun and gates just open for a 3k pages tread! Because google affirm the bias of each!

I don't actually have a bias towards one particular oil company.

I've personally used Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Motorcraft, and Liqui Moly over the past decade or so.

Oil tribalism is dumb.

Oil tribalism is extra, extra dumb when it's people shilling Amsoil.

 

[Ktrw]

Nah fam, what you said was:



For such a great oil, you'd think under rigorous scientific testing, it would outperform at least ONE of these oils in a battery of tests, right?

• Liqui Moly
• Pennzoil
• Mobil 1
• Ravenol
• Red Line

All of which are fantastic oils that I would use myself, but given the "blows Hondas actual requirements out of the water" shilling you're doing here, surely it came in first on at least ONE test when compared to those oils, right?

No.

Not a single f---ing test was it #1.

Not oil temp.
Not torque/hp.
Not wear metals.
Not KRL (shear.)
Not PDSC (oxidation.)
Not TEOST (deposits.)

And this is supposed to be Amsoils BEST oil, unlimited by Big Oil™ and their fascist "standards."

Given that they're able to have more ZDDP because they don't cave to Big Oil™, surely they did well on the wear metals at least? No. Lost out to an oil with ~20% less Zinc/Phosphorous (838/620 on Liqui Moly vs 1010/752 on Amsoil)

Sauce:

Yeah you're almost intentionally missing the point of what I was saying but that's fine. I am used to people in my life being highly opinionated but DAMN son! The ZDDP argument that you're still mischaracterizing was about the literal levels allowed for an API formulation and what exists within SS. Higher ZDDP isn't better, but SS has higher ZDDP (probably some other reasons too), therefore Amsoil either could not or did not want to make it an API oil and that is okay. Does it help that it was bold that time?

We are using the same sources and arriving at different conclusions. I watch all of Lakes stuff and take it as the oil Gospel. You're taking what I'm saying and applying it to arguments I'm not making so I don't know what to tell you.

"Blowing Hondas requirements out of the water" meaning Honda wants you run at least an API oil or better, which SS is. Plenty of great API oils, I'm running API oils, but something like SS is as good or better in some ways, therefore it exceeds what they would want you to run. I think you could make that argument for Driven, Motul, etc. that don't have API certifications. Pretty simple concept.

Considering that all of these are good oils for certain applications and that the purpose of the testing was to show the tradeoffs you make as an oil formulator...
SS has impressive TEOST results:

Oxidation resistance is quite good :

Notice how HPL had much worse TEOST results and is the only one with better PDSC onset time. This is an interesting result if you want to run higher drain intervals in a TDI engine like the K20C, but want deposits to be kept under control.

Shear resistance is quite good (Driven had very low PDSC, HPL had bad TEOST, PUP is a good overall oil):

Each of these oils have strengths and weaknesses, which is awesome to be able to see. Amsoil SS does not out perform in every category, it just does pretty good across the board and has an interesting balance of performance.

You're on a crusade against Amsoil, which I wish I would have realized before even replying because I regret it now because this is a typical pointless Forum argument. I don't care about Amsoil, but through watching Lakes videos, I grew to appreciate that they did make a good oil. I don't run it. It's too expensive for very little payoff for me and I don't do long drain intervals, so it's oxidation resistance is lost on me. But it's a good oil Lake would tell you that as well lol.

There are some cases where signature series is not a good oil to run compared to something like PUP that are worth noting like shown in this livestream with Lake. SS performed very poorly in that engine, which is sort of a Hemi problem itself (they have a weird copper issue that is not necessarily bearings), but I don't think we've seen that with the K20C at all.


I also use various oils, Driven, Pennzoil, Valvoline, used Mobil 1, etc. in the past and think tribalism in general is dumb. I wish you luck on fighting the big bad Amsoil threat.

 

[marcusm86]

 

[Spart]

"Blowing Hondas requirements out of the water" meaning Honda wants you run at least an API oil or better, which SS is.

That right there.

That's where you have bought the marketing hook, line, and sinker.

Amsoil Signature Series isn't better than any number of API oils by any number of metrics.

And the implication that Amsoil Signature Series is somehow in some superior class of oil to API licensed oils from Honda's point of view is absolutely laughable. They want you to run an oil that meets the specs, period.

 

[menikmati]

...

Guys, this is why you have to be careful where you get your information from. Otherwise, it's extremely easy to end up on the first peak of this chart:

But I did the Googlez!

 

[Ktrw]

That right there.

That's where you have bought the marketing hook, line, and sinker.

Amsoil Signature Series isn't better than any number of API oils by any number of metrics.

And the implication that Amsoil Signature Series is somehow in some superior class of oil to API licensed oils from Honda's point of view is absolutely laughable. They want you to run an oil that meets the specs, period.

Do you work for Honda or API?

 

[Spart]

Do you work for Honda or API?

Failing to make a good argument, the losing party switches to attacking credentials.

 

[Ktrw]

Failing to make a good argument, the losing party switches to attacking credentials.

I wasn't going to attack your credentials, was just wondering if you had some spicy insider info that this is stemming from.

 

[Spart]

I wasn't going to attack your credentials, was just wondering if you had some spicy insider info that this is stemming from.

The spicy insider info is my ability to read and understand the owner's manual.

Note that "SN or higher grade" here doesn't mean "SN or Amsoil Signature Series" - it means SN or successor API classifications. Those would be SP and SQ, currently.

 

[Ktrw]

The spicy insider info is my ability to read and understand the owner's manual.

Note that "SN or higher grade" here doesn't mean "SN or Amsoil Signature Series" - it means SN or successor API classifications. Those would be SP and SQ, currently.

Thank you great oracle Spart. Maybe some day I will be able to prevent my grave transgressions utilizing the same information as you.

 

[Spart]

Thank you great oracle Spart. Maybe some day I will be able to prevent my grave transgressions utilizing the same information as you.

You can run whatever oil you want, just don't make assertions like this if you don't want called out:

Honda wants you run at least an API oil or better, which SS is.

People make decisions about what to do to keep their warranty FULLY intact based on what they read here. If it weren't for that, I'd let you guys circle-jerk about Amsoil all day long.

A dealer may choose to warranty a car that has been running Amsoil Signature Series. They may choose not to.

If a car has been running an oil that Honda recommends, then they have no leg to stand on to make a warranty denial.

 

[Ktrw]

You can run whatever oil you want, just don't make assertions like this if you don't want called out:



People make decisions about what to do to keep their warranty FULLY intact based on what they read here. If it weren't for that, I'd let you guys circle-jerk about Amsoil all day long.

A dealer may choose to warranty a car that has been running Amsoil Signature Series. They may choose not to.

If a car has been running an oil that Honda recommends, then they have no leg to stand on to make a warranty denial.

Yeah I'm on the opposite side of that argument. I do think SS is as good as an API certified oil and wanted to jump in because of what you said.

The good news, for @dminusBird , is that ENEOS X Prime 5W-30 meets API SQ and ILSAC GF-7A requirements. So that is pretty cool that they already have their formulation updated (or it was already good enough). Given the more stringent requirements for SQ, it is likely a good oil. Their normal 0W-20 is what they recommend on their site and it meets SQ requirements as well.

 

[Spart]

Yeah I'm on the opposite side of that argument. I do think SS is as good as an API certified oil

You are moving the goalposts. You claimed that Honda's perspective is that Amsoil Signature Series is better than an API licensed oil:

Honda wants you run at least an API oil or better, which SS is.

Again: that statement is FALSE.

 

[Ktrw]

You are moving the goalposts. You claimed that Honda's perspective is that Amsoil Signature Series is better than an API licensed oil:



Again: that statement is FALSE.

Yeah agree to disagree.

I said " For all effective purposes, SS blows Hondas actual requirements out of the water since it is a great oil for DI turbo engines."

You posted what the manual says, which is run API SN or greater. The subsequent API certs are way better oils. SS is a better oil than the API SN era for sure.

I think it does do that based on all the testing I've seen and I posted an example of that. I feel confident you could ask someone involved with K20C's at Honda if they would feel comfortable recommending SS and they would be fine with it. Plenty of people running it too for years so I don't think thats a crazy thing to say.

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