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Rollout of the FL5 and the Big Tease - Decreasing want for this car?

007

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I find it interesting that you would try to compare all the virtues of a 2023 M2 that is clearly in a different price class, appeals to a somewhat different set of automotive enthusiasts and has an MSRP of ~$20,000 more than the 2023 CTR.

After having experienced the infamous rod bearing issues that plagued BMW for years and could never seem to get rid of on the E46 and E90, throttle actuator issues, transmissions issues, electronic issues and paint issues it was time for me to move on and give up on the BMW brand.

Hung out with a number of other BMW enthusiasts during those times and after a couple of years and also experiencing subsequent realiability issues they all moved on as well.

One of the other concerning issues with the M cars was that they depreciate quickly which is obviously a concern for all of us enthusiasts but is certainly not the case with the 1st generation FK8 and suggest that the new FL5 will also do very well in that area also.

Some 5 years ago I purchased a 2018 Rallye Red CTR and drove that example for a year before being transferred out West and decided to sell it back to the original Honda dealership before moving out West and got back pretty much what I originally paid for that vehicle which is certainly not anything that an M model could attain or hardly any other automotive brand for that matter.

Having previously owned a few M cars and also a 1st generation CTR, it was an easy decision to choose a 2nd generation CTR over many other brand of vehicles including an M car based on reliability, resale value and dealer price point.

We all understand your big concern with respect to ADM's for the CTR therefore suggest that you either suck it up and go make your best deal on a 2023 CTR or move on to a 2023 M2 that you can purchase for well less than MSRP.

Seems to be a pretty easy decision from my standpoint and wish you good luck going forward.
I never inquired about your life story or your experience with M cars. I don’t care. You hate them, I get it. You’re not impressing anyone here with your history lesson on issues like rod bearings, etc. (you forgot to mention vanos, which was bigger than all of them). But guess what? - I don’t give a shit lol. Not everybody buys a car with reliability in mind.

BTW, this thread was never about M2 or M3. You’re making it about them for no apparent reason. It was more about people’s dissatisfaction with pricing and potentially moving onto other platforms, which are similarly priced.

Maybe the M2 is $20k more to you (assuming you’re one of a handful of folks in the country who bought a CTR at MSRP), but to many it is (realistically) the same (or less) than CTR with ADM.

M2 “appeals to a somewhat different set of automotive enthusiasts” - it’s statements like these that make you sound less and less credible. You don’t get to decide what appeals to someone. Many people cross-shop cars based on price, aesthetics, etc. and definitely not purely performance. And not everybody who buys these cars is a Honda or BMW fanboy. I’ve owned M cars for over two decades and I also want a Type R. Is that illegal? - You make it sound like it’s a crime to like both.

Folks are realizing they can cross-shop this car with the likes of RS3 and so on… That’s the whole point of this thread and several others like it circulating this forum. If everybody found an FL5 at $5k ADM or less with great ease as you are implying, then discussions such as this one wouldn’t exist.
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007

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I see a lot of M car this, Cadillac Blackwing that, Golf R here and GR86 there popping up but the point remains, you're doing so from a Civic forum. If you really wanted any of those cars you would have bought them already. Especially since they can be had at MSRP a lot easier than the CTR at the moment.

Until one of you guys jumps ship and gets something else, the FL5 CTR>>>>>>
Buying a car is a big step for many of us (especially those who keep cars long term). It takes a lot of research and patience. Just because we don’t pull the trigger immediately doesn’t mean we aren’t interested one way or another. Nor does it mean that we don’t want a Type R now or in the near future (I sure do).

Folks come on this forum to learn about the FL5, discuss pricing, availability, etc. This launch with its vicious ADM’s was nothing short of ludicrous. Many of us got turned off by it. Threads like these serve a purpose - they let us discuss alternatives.

Hell, there was a dude in another thread on here (can’t find the post) who bought a Miata Club with Recaros/BBS in place of the FL5. It actually made me think that I could/should do the same for the time being.
 

AspecR

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Buying a car is a big step for many of us (especially those who keep cars long term). It takes a lot of research and patience. Just because we don’t pull the trigger immediately doesn’t mean we aren’t interested one way or another. Nor does it mean that we don’t want a Type R now or in the near future (I sure do).

Folks come on this forum to learn about the FL5, discuss pricing, availability, etc. This launch with its vicious ADM’s was nothing short of ludicrous. Many of us got turned off by it. Threads like these serve a purpose - they let us discuss alternatives.

Hell, there was a dude in another thread on here (can’t find the post) who bought a Miata Club with Recaros/BBS in place of the FL5. It actually made me think that I could/should do the same for the time being.
I understand what you’re getting at and current grievances with the rollout and ADM need to be highlighted. My issue is the arguments against the FL5 haven’t been because of the actual car itself. All the current issues being discussed are either the fault of the dealers or the current logistics issues it faces.

The M cars and Blackwings only become an argument because of ADM on the FL5 and the direct competitors (Golf R, Elantra N, GR86, etc) only come up as an alternative because they are readily available. My Dealership has a sister VW store less than half a mile down the street and they have never had a Golf R touch the dealership floor before it’s been sold. The other competitors all had there ADM issues, the only difference is the FL5 is currently facing unique logistical issues that no other Honda has ever faced in recent memory.

The guy that bought the MX5 didn’t go into the discussion threads saying he’d buy an MX5, and highlighting why it’s better to buy it, he just bought it instead.

All I’m saying is the arguments against the FL5 are literally not the FL5s fault. All the other relevant FL5 information is readily available and easily accessed.
 


CyberCTR

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I understand what you’re getting at and current grievances with the rollout and ADM need to be highlighted. My issue is the arguments against the FL5 haven’t been because of the actual car itself. All the current issues being discussed are either the fault of the dealers or the current logistics issues it faces.

The M cars and Blackwings only become an argument because of ADM on the FL5 and the direct competitors (Golf R, Elantra N, GR86, etc) only come up as an alternative because they are readily available. My Dealership has a sister VW store less than half a mile down the street and they have never had a Golf R touch the dealership floor before it’s been sold. The other competitors all had there ADM issues, the only difference is the FL5 is currently facing unique logistical issues that no other Honda has ever faced in recent memory.

The guy that bought the MX5 didn’t go into the discussion threads saying he’d buy an MX5, and highlighting why it’s better to buy it, he just bought it instead.

All I’m saying is the arguments against the FL5 are literally not the FL5s fault. All the other relevant FL5 information is readily available and easily accessed.
Yeah no one in here would be seeking an alternative to the FL5 if they were reasonably priced. I think most people understand that it’s those things you mention that turn people off. Nothing against the car.
 

citrus

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Yeah no one in here would be seeking an alternative to the FL5 if they were reasonably priced.
It's odd to me that pricing and availability are such big deciding factors, considering that they're temporary. But what a car is, on the other hand, is not. And not to mention a compact sport hatch/sedan has never been a "need" car. So I can't really understand the urgency.

An FL5 tomorrow or a year from tomorrow is still an FL5. If someone wanted to pay more money (than FL5 MSRP) for more power or luxury or whatever, did they really want an FL5 in the first place?
 

Village911

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It's odd to me that pricing and availability are such big deciding factors, considering that they're temporary. But what a car is, on the other hand, is not. And not to mention a compact sport hatch/sedan has never been a "need" car. So I can't really understand the urgency.

An FL5 tomorrow or a year from tomorrow is still an FL5. If someone wanted to pay more money (than FL5 MSRP) for more power or luxury or whatever, did they really want an FL5 in the first place?
Only Honda fanboys like me who have been putting $800 to the side every month for 11 months will pay 9k adm and buy fl5 right now. You guys can chill and enjoy your current car and not stress out about it... Or buy something in the meantime and get a facelift years later!
 

007

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The guy that bought the MX5 didn’t go into the discussion threads saying he’d buy an MX5, and highlighting why it’s better to buy it, he just bought it instead.

All I’m saying is the arguments against the FL5 are literally not the FL5s fault. All the other relevant FL5 information is readily available and easily accessed.
Eh, I still don’t see what the big deal is. If people want to discuss alternatives, it doesn’t mean they hold a grudge against the FL5 or that it’s the FL5’s fault.

The way I see things is that Honda owners have turned out to be a very fragile bunch. As soon as somebody mentions anything negative about the FL5 (or its pricing), they are seen as anti-FL5 or an FL5-hater.

Mentioning an M car turned into bashing the brand and a history lesson on BMW issues. Good Lord. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy an M2 or M3 or any other car for that matter. Some incredibly fragile egos on here.
 

SP R KiD

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Eh, I still don’t see what the big deal is. If people want to discuss alternatives, it doesn’t mean they hold a grudge against the FL5 or that it’s the FL5’s fault.

The way I see things is that Honda owners have turned out to be a very fragile bunch. As soon as somebody mentions anything negative about the FL5 (or its pricing), they are seen as anti-FL5 or an FL5-hater.

Mentioning an M car turned into bashing the brand and a history lesson on BMW issues. Good Lord. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy an M2 or M3. Some incredibly fragile egos on here.
Maybe, but the same could be said the other way around. Some pretty big egos for m2/m3 because of ADM comparisons. Not you specifically either btw, just in general.
 


007

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Maybe, but the same could be said the other way around. Some pretty big egos for m2/m3 because of ADM comparisons. Not you specifically either btw, just in general.
Sure, for some it may be an ego thing, assuming they’re after the badge and blatantly talk down the FL5 purely because of price gouging.
 

007

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IMO, the very fact that a CTR is being compared to and cross-shopped with M, RS3, etc. is a huge win for Honda. That’s never happened before; at least not to this extent. It shows the overall want level for the FL5 is off the charts. Why more folks here don’t view this as a positive thing is beyond me.
 

SP R KiD

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I'm sure in 6 months, everyone will be in a better mood.
Right bro...like I just want my car and seeing other people get theirs and just being happy lol. Idc about anything else.
 

AspecR

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Eh, I still don’t see what the big deal is. If people want to discuss alternatives, it doesn’t mean they hold a grudge against the FL5 or that it’s the FL5’s fault.

The way I see things is that Honda owners have turned out to be a very fragile bunch. As soon as somebody mentions anything negative about the FL5 (or its pricing), they are seen as anti-FL5 or an FL5-hater.

Mentioning an M car turned into bashing the brand and a history lesson on BMW issues. Good Lord. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy an M2 or M3 or any other car for that matter. Some incredibly fragile egos on here.
I was speaking generally, I haven’t singled out anyone or any post in my initial post. I’m not for bashing any brand at all, they all have their merits. The FL5 being compared to cars above its weight class proves its engineering excellence..

My fragile ego comes from all the BMW ppl that keep asking “WHy dOEs yoUr F80 haVE a sunrOOF? Instead of the carbon fibre roof lol.
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