Has the 2nd gear grind happened to your FL5 yet?

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I ran Amsoil in my Si and found that it was better than OEM in all possible ways and situations, including extreme cold weather (-20’s and -30’s). I had been running Honda MTF for 3-4 years before I discovered Amsoil. The effect is definitely not imagined nor a placebo. The stuff WORKS.

Good to know, changing fluids can definitely have an impact. Coming from the Focus ST, many of us changed to Motul DCTF and the consensus was pretty much unanimous on the improvement.

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[PointByPatrol]

I think the clutch delay valves are a big factor here as well.

 

[TypeOne]

What type of perfect shifting should be done? Ive driven multiple stick shift cars including the 10th gen Si and FK8 and damn the FL5 is horrible. I have done everything and 2,3,&4, just dont stop grinding every time i get into gear.

If you seriously can't stop griding 2/3/4 then take your car to the dealer and ask them to inspect it. I have never had any issues with a new Honda transmission. I see many people that come from other cars have trouble with them though. I also have a GR Corolla and both cars feel and shift MUCH different.

 

[TypeOne]

I think the clutch delay valves are a big factor here as well.

I doubt it. The clutch delay valve only works when the pedal is being smashed. It has no effect on a normal in/out engagement. If you were trying to clutch kick it, yea, its not going to like the shock, but for someone taking off from a stop sign.. no.. the CDV isn't doing anything.

 

[JonathanA0315]

If you seriously can't stop riding 2/3/4 then take your car to the dealer and ask them to inspect it. I have never had any issues with a new Honda transmission. I see many people that come from other cars have trouble with them though. I also have a GR Corolla and both cars feel and shift MUCH different.

Yeah unfortunately only certain people have felt it, my buddy went to Honda and they said it was perfectly normal. There is also a post about it on the FB group where there is a group of people talking about this same situation. Yeah i know every car is different but with the praise the FL5 gets i thought it would be a great experience and it hasn’t been for me. Even down shifting feels horrible. But thanks for your response.

 

[TypeOne]

Yeah unfortunately only certain people have felt it, my buddy went to Honda and they said it was perfectly normal. There is also a post about it on the FB group where there is a group of people talking about this same situation. Yeah i know every car is different but with the praise the FL5 gets i thought it would be a great experience and it hasn’t been for me. Even down shifting feels horrible. But thanks for your response.

Can you describe what horrible feels like?

Have you changed the fluid? Is there metal in the oil?

Does it do it when its cold? Hot?

Have you driven another FL5 to compare?

To be honest, I have an FK8 and a 23 Civic Si and all cars feel pretty similar. I say the 11th Gen Civic (Si and Type R) shift better than the FK8 and its because of the shifter design. But even with stock shifters in all these cars there isn't a HUGE difference.

 

[ABPDE5]

There's definitely enough complaints out there that we know it's happening. The question is why... is it a model to model thing (and un-luck of the draw), is it technique, is it fluid, does it need a CMC adjustment?

I've personally never had issues with mine, nor with any Honda transmission since an early 8th gen Si (that car would pop out of 3rd twice a week).

 

[JonathanA0315]

Can you describe what horrible feels like?

Have you changed the fluid? Is there metal in the oil?

Does it do it when its cold? Hot?

Have you driven another FL5 to compare?

To be honest, I have an FK8 and a 23 Civic Si and all cars feel pretty similar. I say the 11th Gen Civic (Si and Type R) shift better than the FK8 and its because of the shifter design. But even with stock shifters in all these cars there isn't a HUGE difference.

No i have not changed the fluid, and horrible to me is the fact that almost every time i shift, it has a grind or crunch. Either i know that it isn’t normal. It don’t matter if it’s hot or cold but it grinds. No i have not driven another Fl5, very few times have i had a smooth drive and really do love it when it is smooth. I will be doing a fluid change soon to see if it helps, which i shouldn’t have to, only 1k miles. When i had the Si a lot of people told be about the transmission issues they had but i never had anything and by far has been the best car from the FK8 & FL5. But i am aware that these transmissions are trash.

 

[fredzy]

If it really crunches consistently there is a problem and you should at least try the dealer. There's no way changing the fluid will improve that unless there was something very wrong with the factory fill.

In meantime I'd be interested to see what effect double-clutching the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts have on it, at least when the car is cold.

Clutch in > shift from 1st to neutral > clutch out > clutch in > shift from neutral to 2nd > clutch out

Double clutch upshift timing is very easy. Engaging then disengaging the clutch while in neutral will sync the layshaft with the falling engine revs which should be very close to output shaft speed once you shift from neutral into next gear = very smooth shift due to synchros having nothing to do. If something is still catching then I'd suspect your clutch isn't fully disengaging when pedal is depressed.

My FL5 has been maybe the smoothest/best shifting car I've ever owned, hot or cold. I've always double clutched the first few upshifts of the day when trans is cold to guarantee smooth cold shifts and I do it with FL5 even though it complains about the cold less than most. I have not had a grind, 3500 miles or so

 

[JonathanA0315]

There's definitely enough complaints out there that we know it's happening. The question is why... is it a model to model thing (and un-luck of the draw), is it technique, is it fluid, does it need a CMC adjustment?

I've personally never had issues with mine, nor with any Honda transmission since an early 8th gen Si (that car would pop out of 3rd twice a week).

If it really crunches consistently there is a problem and you should at least try the dealer. There's no way changing the fluid will improve that unless there was something very wrong with the factory fill.

In meantime I'd be interested to see what effect double-clutching the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts have on it, at least when the car is cold.

Clutch in > shift from 1st to neutral > clutch out > clutch in > shift from neutral to 2nd > clutch out

Double clutch upshift timing is very easy. Engaging then disengaging the clutch while in neutral will sync the layshaft with the falling engine revs which should be very close to output shaft speed once you shift from neutral into next gear = very smooth shift due to synchros having nothing to do. If something is still catching then I'd suspect your clutch isn't fully disengaging when pedal is depressed.

My FL5 has been maybe the smoothest/best shifting car I've ever owned, hot or cold. I've always double clutched the first few upshifts of the day when trans is cold to guarantee smooth cold shifts and I do it with FL5 even though it complains about the cold less than most. I have not had a grind, 3500 miles or so

If it really crunches consistently there is a problem and you should at least try the dealer. There's no way changing the fluid will improve that unless there was something very wrong with the factory fill.

In meantime I'd be interested to see what effect double-clutching the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts have on it, at least when the car is cold.

Clutch in > shift from 1st to neutral > clutch out > clutch in > shift from neutral to 2nd > clutch out

Double clutch upshift timing is very easy. Engaging then disengaging the clutch while in neutral will sync the layshaft with the falling engine revs which should be very close to output shaft speed once you shift from neutral into next gear = very smooth shift due to synchros having nothing to do. If something is still catching then I'd suspect your clutch isn't fully disengaging when pedal is depressed.

My FL5 has been maybe the smoothest/best shifting car I've ever owned, hot or cold. I've always double clutched the first few upshifts of the day when trans is cold to guarantee smooth cold shifts and I do it with FL5 even though it complains about the cold less than most. I have not had a grind, 3500 miles or so

I have done this double clutching and nothing, same thing and yes i thought the same thing that the fluid wouldn’t do anything and i have not done it, its just in the back of my head because i want to keep the car but im getting tired. I know its not normal because i have driven plenty of stick shift cars and this is is by far the worst. I have stated somewhere else that even down shifting is horrific. Im at 1k miles and have not driven hard. Truly disappointed.

 

[Gansan]

I doubt it. The clutch delay valve only works when the pedal is being smashed. It has no effect on a normal in/out engagement. If you were trying to clutch kick it, yea, its not going to like the shock, but for someone taking off from a stop sign.. no.. the CDV isn't doing anything.

It's the other direction, actually. It's sort of a one-way valve with a constriction that prevents the slave cylinder from *returning* at full speed. The point is to soften the engagement. Disconnecting the clutch quickly is 100% fine. If it actually prevented you from smashing the clutch at full speed, it would also stop the pedal and your foot from moving because the hydraulic fluid is incompressible.

 

[timestamped]

A video to see/hear what is happening would be helpful. I’m new to the platform but only found FK8 gear grind videos (some showed apparent user error), no FL5 yet.

I did find this that might be useful:

 

[fredzy]

If you're double clutch upshifting and it's grinding then the clutch is not disengaging when you press the pedal down. Take it to the dealer. It is hard to imagine any competent tech saying it's normal, and if they do you could at least ask them to carry out the adjustment procedure and confirm the right measurements.

If they still tell you to pound sand it isn't hard to make the adjustment yourself. There are a lot of threads out there about how to check/adjust. This thread is about an FK8 I think but might be the same as FL5. Not sure if anyone can chime in with the clutch measurement specs for FL5.

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/clutch-pedal-adjustment.55535/

 

[Zone47]

1500 miles here and no grinding. I'm pretty easy on it overall but will take it to the drags later in the year and if it grinds, that will be the time.

 

[TypeOne]

It's the other direction, actually. It's sort of a one-way valve with a constriction that prevents the slave cylinder from *returning* at full speed. The point is to soften the engagement. Disconnecting the clutch quickly is 100% fine. If it actually prevented you from smashing the clutch at full speed, it would also stop the pedal and your foot from moving because the hydraulic fluid is incompressible.

My point was that unless you are rapidly moving the pedal, that valve isn't doing anything. You will feel the pedal normally until you start pushing it faster than the flow which is what slows everything down. I think we are saying the same thing haha.

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