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NorthernLaw

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Every day we are getting closer and closer to the reveal. I cannot wait for this car it's going to be amazing I can already tell, I just hope it looks up to par since this is the one I will be getting
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KoukiVAB

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Iā€™m a Honda and FWD fanboy just like the next guy. However, FWD platform for a sports car which is no longer NA 4 cylinder (less power) is a mistake. Now weā€™re into serious sports car category and FWD means for any condition less than ideal itā€™s oversteer or torque steer. In RWD platform, less than ideal condition means tail happy smiles.

Look at well executed AWD platforms: Evo, Focus RS, STI (minus motor reliability). Itā€™s performance in all climates and road conditions. GR Corolla isnā€™t even out and every dealer near me has 30+ depositsā€¦ something about small motor turbo, fender flares, manual AND AWD!
Actually there's whole class of 300hp FWD hot hatches in other markets.
VW has GTI Clubsport, Cupra has Leon, Renault of course has Megane R.S. Trophy.
Unfortunately CTR is the only one we get here in North America, but it's not the only FWD track monster.
These cars obviously can't do donuts or crazy launches but they are capable of achieving some mad lap times, even compared to their AWD competitors.

Evo, WRX/STI and GRC have AWD because of their rally heritage, not because they think AWD is simply better.
Focus RS Mk.2 was actually one of the FWD monsters but I guess Ford wanted to join the AWD game after all the Rallycross and Gymkhana stuff.
 

Rhorn

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Iā€™m a Honda and FWD fanboy just like the next guy. However, FWD platform for a sports car which is no longer NA 4 cylinder (less power) is a mistake. Now weā€™re into serious sports car category and FWD means for any condition less than ideal itā€™s oversteer or torque steer. In RWD platform, less than ideal condition means tail happy smiles.

Look at well executed AWD platforms: Evo, Focus RS, STI (minus motor reliability). Itā€™s performance in all climates and road conditions. GR Corolla isnā€™t even out and every dealer near me has 30+ depositsā€¦ something about small motor turbo, fender flares, manual AND AWD!
Why would you want it in the Civic Type R though? The new Integra would be the perfect candidate for Acura's new SH-AWD, and Im sure that the Type S will have that.
 


007

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Just in case there were any doubts about how fun or capable FWD can be in the hands of a competent driverā€¦

 

mbaapk

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Just in case there were any doubts about how fun or capable FWD can be in the hands of a competent driverā€¦

thats crazy - i cant believe there are not more wrecks on that track
 

Dave B

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So what would you rather have for track use? A 300hp car that weighs 3000lb or a 400hp car that weighs 4000 lb? If the extra 1000 lb (hypothetically but not really) gets you AWD, you will accelerate better out of slow corners but you will lose in every corner and every braking zone unless you go to much bigger tires which then increases weight and rolling resistance even more. AWD is for pickup trucks and there is no purpose of putting it in a hot hatch unless you measure performance by 0-60 times.
 

007

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So what would you rather have for track use? A 300hp car that weighs 3000lb or a 400hp car that weighs 4000 lb? If the extra 1000 lb (hypothetically but not really) gets you AWD, you will accelerate better out of slow corners but you will lose in every corner and every braking zone unless you go to much bigger tires which then increases weight and rolling resistance even more. AWD is for pickup trucks and there is no purpose of putting it in a hot hatch unless you measure performance by 0-60 times.
Unquestionably the car with less hp and less weight for me. And you donā€™t have to add AWD to gain a shit ton of weight - just ask BMW.

Thatā€™s one of the reasons why I gave up on recent ///M offerings. Too fā€™king heavy. Theyā€™ve become tanks.

I have no remorse switching from an M2C to the new Civic Type R (assuming itā€™s even remotely as capable as the last one). Money didnā€™t play a role in my decision-making, but fun factor - or lack thereof - did.

I know. I know. Itā€™s unfathomable to some. How could anyone consider a transition from M2C to a CTR an upgrade?!

Well, Iā€™ll tell you how. Despite being a much faster car, the M2C was a pig in the corners compared to a CTR, which is much lighter and more lively as a result. Steering in the M2C was too numb. The car was too refined, which isnā€™t a good thing in my world. Overall, CTR offers a more engrossing experience (once you get to know it), particularly on twisty roads where its weight and grip make it feel like a slot car; you really feel like a hero in it, even though you may or may not know what you're doing. I can only imagine this gap in feel and fun will widen with chassis improvements to the upcoming R.

Which is not to say the newer M3's or M2ā€™s don't drive nicely, they do. It's just the CTR has this really unique way of putting a smile on your face that makes it special.

You can utilize fancy modern tech to hide and dial out excess weight (Nissan GTR comes to mind), but if youā€™re particular about the way a car drives and communicates, it will never feel quite right. Canā€™t cheat physics.
 

FelixFJ40

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So what would you rather have for track use? A 300hp car that weighs 3000lb or a 400hp car that weighs 4000 lb? If the extra 1000 lb (hypothetically but not really) gets you AWD, you will accelerate better out of slow corners but you will lose in every corner and every braking zone unless you go to much bigger tires which then increases weight and rolling resistance even more. AWD is for pickup trucks and there is no purpose of putting it in a hot hatch unless you measure performance by 0-60 times.
But the GR Corolla weighs just 200 pounds more than the lightest 10th gen CTR. So, if the ā€˜23 car gains a bit of weight (which is probable), could be close.

Donā€™t get me wrong - Iā€™ve had a deposit on the CTR for months. But now Iā€™m torn.
 


007

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But the GR Corolla weighs just 200 pounds more than the lightest 10th gen CTR. So, if the ā€˜23 car gains a bit of weight (which is probable), could be close.

Donā€™t get me wrong - Iā€™ve had a deposit on the CTR for months. But now Iā€™m torn.
~200 lbs is a lot.
 

FelixFJ40

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~200 lbs is a lot.
Sure. But say the new CTR adds 100 lbs to the last gen. Is an AWD system that can give you 70% to the rear worth another 100?

Edit: To be clear, Iā€™m asking because I really donā€™t know. Thatā€™s not rhetorical. šŸ™‚
 

SwiftTone

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Sure. But say the new CTR adds 100 lbs to the last gen. Is an AWD system that can give you 70% to the rear worth another 100?

Edit: To be clear, Iā€™m asking because I really donā€™t know. Thatā€™s not rhetorical. šŸ™‚
I would say a good AWD system is easily worth 100-200lbs. SHAWD is damn good but has it ever been mated to a manual?
 

007

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Sure. But say the new CTR adds 100 lbs to the last gen. Is an AWD system that can give you 70% to the rear worth another 100?

Edit: To be clear, Iā€™m asking because I really donā€™t know. Thatā€™s not rhetorical. šŸ™‚
ā€œWorthā€ is extremely subjective. Iā€™m getting the GR Corolla either way. Do I think that it will deliver a more engaging experience and handle better than the new Type R? - I donā€™t.

But time will tell.

The ONLY reason why GR Corolla has so much hype is because of the GR Yaris, which is a spectacular car. IMO, the GRY is the best and most engaging car that money can buy, period.

Having said that, the GRC is 400 lbs heavier. Sure, they gave it a slight power bump, but itā€™s still 400 lbs heavier.

BTW, Iā€™m not shitting on either car. I have high hopes for both.
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