Considering a CTR

[Unobtanium]

I am considering a CTR for my next fun car. Some background on this...


I drove an ev6 GT for a few years. It was fast as hell and boringly reliable. I crushed almost every car that had a go at me. Roll or dig. But it lacked soul. It wasnt engaging. After a few wot blasts, it was very mundane. It also is going obsolete. The work to keep it on the road in 20 years is literally impossible or impossibly stupid to pay for. Its a consumable.

I want the opposite of that. I first came to that realization when I bought a 2011 CVPI for a beater 1.5 years ago. I put 30k miles on it by the time I added another 4k to the GT. Something about being able to work on it, the rack and pinion steering, the gutless but opinionated 4.6L v8. Vibes, man.

I want a fun car like that, but with higher limits. I want a car that in 20 years will still have a place in my garage.

Cars Ive considered: nismo z manual, m2x drive, rc-f.

But everyone keeps glazing the CTR. So I went to drive one. It absolutely demolished my expectations and I couldnt stop grinning. My only concern is...Will I miss the power? Will fwd become a burden? Is it special enough?

Id like to hear from some of you who kay also have or have cross shopped similar cars to my list.

Sponsored

 

[dkhm3]

I don’t think one car ticks all those boxes.

 

[optronix]

Coming to a forum dedicated to a particular type of car is going to give you exactly what you expect. People here like the Civic Type R. Kind of a prerequisite for going through the motions of registering.

I had to google both of the cars you referenced. I consider myself a pretty avid car enthusiast and I couldn't place the alphabet soup you threw out.

I will tell you that (according to google), your electric Kia and, uh... crown vic are definitely the polar opposite of an FL5.

As for if you'll get tired of it or not, only you can answer that question, and you still won't know until 3-5 years from now.

I guess I'll put it in perspective by returning the favor with my own alphabet soup. I've had everything from dog slow Japanese 4 cylinder (KA24E 240SX and my current MX-5), kind of fast Japanese turbo (SR20DET 240SX, Talon TSI/AWD, STI), American muscle (68 Chevelle, 92 Mustang), German "muscle" (E36 M3, E92 335i, F82 M4, Audi S3/S4/RS5), Porsche (981 BGTS, 991.2 C2S, 718 BGTS and BGTS 4.0). That's not including the wife's cars, but currently she has a 95B.3 Macan GTS (which is arguably better than everything I've listed in its own way).

Note none of these previous cars were FWD. Some had a lot of power, some didn't.

I've had my DE5 for a little over 3 years now and I'm not tired of it. I did end up adding the MX-5 just recently but the DE5 is going absolutely nowhere. I would not choose any other car available today (besides an FL5, if that counts [it doesn't]), and in fact am keeping a sharp eye on what changes are made to the expected refresh coming soon. I'm leaning towards getting a new one regardless just to hit reset on the miles because I do indeed plan to keep this car for the foreseeable future.

I think the concept of epsilon effectively captures my thoughts on the chances of me moving on from this car. For you math guys out there.

 

[Unobtanium]

Coming to a forum dedicated to a particular type of car is going to give you exactly what you expect. People here like the Civic Type R. Kind of a prerequisite for going through the motions of registering.

I had to google both of the cars you referenced. I consider myself a pretty avid car enthusiast and I couldn't place the alphabet soup you threw out.

I will tell you that (according to google), your electric Kia and, uh... crown vic are definitely the polar opposite of an FL5.

As for if you'll get tired of it or not, only you can answer that question, and you still won't know until 3-5 years from now.

I guess I'll put it in perspective by returning the favor with my own alphabet soup. I've had everything from dog slow Japanese 4 cylinder (KA24E 240SX and my current MX-5), kind of fast Japanese turbo (SR20DET 240SX, Talon TSI/AWD, STI), American muscle (68 Chevelle, 92 Mustang), German "muscle" (E36 M3, E92 335i, F82 M4, Audi S3/S4/RS5), Porsche (981 BGTS, 991.2 C2S, 718 BGTS and BGTS 4.0). That's not including the wife's cars, but currently she has a 95B.3 Macan GTS (which is arguably better than everything I've listed in its own way).

Note none of these previous cars were FWD. Some had a lot of power, some didn't.

I've had my DE5 for a little over 3 years now and I'm not tired of it. I did end up adding the MX-5 just recently but the DE5 is going absolutely nowhere. I would not choose any other car available today (besides an FL5, if that counts [it doesn't]), and in fact am keeping a sharp eye on what changes are made to the expected refresh coming soon. I'm leaning towards getting a new one regardless just to hit reset on the miles because I do indeed plan to keep this car for the foreseeable future.

I think the concept of epsilon effectively captures my thoughts on the chances of me moving on from this car. For you math guys out there.

Very helpful. Thankyou.

I remember when Silvia with sr20det was a popular and accessible vehicle move in my area in college. Man what I wouldn't give for a clean one today!

That said, can you speak more to why you love the CTR so much, and do yoi view fwd as a benefit, liability, downside, upside, or what?

Obviously you have ownes some cars I grew up around loving, so your opinion personally matters to my questions. Thanks!

* a lot of the German cars you mentioned were on my short list until I read up on some of the things that would stress me the hell out maintaining or worrying about. CTR under the hood looks super tame, and googling OEM parts, laughably affordable.

 

[optronix]

I feel like every time someone asks me to talk or post about the car it goes straight to "wax poetic" territory and character counts tend to reach extravagant lengths (and you caught me at the best possible time, the 2nd cup of coffee before workout), but there is reason for that- some of it is specific to me, but a lot would apply to others looking for similar things. And to be clear- I have an Integra Type S. There are plenty of threads available for the debate on how "different" the DE5 and FL5 are so I won't get into that here. For purposes of this conversation, to me they're effectively the same cars.

For me personally, I kept trying to find a car that did in fact "check all the boxes". I tried several times to have a car situation that allowed me to have my "fun car" but also didn't limit me if I needed to take more than one other person, or in my case, my rather large dog. The dog is what necessitates 4 doors for me and that was non-negotiable. I probably would have ended up in an F87 M2 CS or Supra (or another Boxster/Cayman/911) if I didn't need the rear doors, and I stand by that. There are also other 2-car approaches that now that I have the MX-5 kind of change the calculus a little bit but also- probably worth a separate conversation.

This car does that "box checking", but several other cars on the market technically do to. Some even offer a manual, which was also a prerequisite for me after learning I just couldn't live without one. Case in point, the car I was most confident about being a true "all purpose enthusiast car" was the Audi RS5. I watched every YouTube review, read every comparison article, and was convinced that it was the absolute perfect combination of enthusiast vibe and everyday practicality and comfort. Well, it was... but the part Audi didn't really pay attention to was actually making it good to drive when you're actually trying to drive it. I.e., it's not a "driver's car". The DE5/FL5 absolutely is.

What do I mean by that- really it comes down to the inputs and the sensations you get from the chassis when you're driving on a back road, or on a track (for me, I'm more of an autocross guy but that's a different rathole). If you're astute, you would have noticed that I said a manual was a "prerequisite", but the RS5 is not available in manual. That was part of my lesson with that car, but there's more to it than that. I was actually very happy with the RS5- until I tried taking it on my go-to backroads route. It just felt... empty. Like I was driving an appliance. Part of it was the steering, but the chassis too- it's a very capable car, but the experience of extracting it when it mattered just left me wanting more.

6 months later (once I got through the winter), I had another Boxster. That clearly couldn't fit my dog in it so here we are (there was also one more Boxster in between- I had to try the 4.0). I won't try to argue that my car-buying decision-making has been sound and I warned that my opinions are mine alone and may be completely irrelevant to many others... but it's given me a lot of perspective, at least.

There's obviously more to the overall story but what ended up drawing me to the FL5 and ultimately landing on the DE5 was the DNA of a "driver's car" FIRST, then fill in the gaps with practicality. Straight line performance isn't important to me- but fortunately the power delivery in these cars is actually pretty great and there's an overall balance that works well with the FWD platform. I was that guy who convinced himself he'd never have a FWD "performance" car. Once some people I respected started sharing glowing perspectives on the FL5 it started getting my attention, and now having literally just had the opportunity to autocross my Integra vs an MX-5 3 weeks apart, I daresay I appreciate both platforms equally.

The post has already gotten pretty long and I do have a workday ahead of me but hopefully this helps a bit. If there's a comparison to any particular car on my list I gave you're interested let me know.

 

[Unobtanium]

I feel like every time someone asks me to talk or post about the car it goes straight to "wax poetic" territory and character counts tend to reach extravagant lengths (and you caught me at the best possible time, the 2nd cup of coffee before workout), but there is reason for that- some of it is specific to me, but a lot would apply to others looking for similar things. And to be clear- I have an Integra Type S. There are plenty of threads available for the debate on how "different" the DE5 and FL5 are so I won't get into that here. For purposes of this conversation, to me they're effectively the same cars.

For me personally, I kept trying to find a car that did in fact "check all the boxes". I tried several times to have a car situation that allowed me to have my "fun car" but also didn't limit me if I needed to take more than one other person, or in my case, my rather large dog. The dog is what necessitates 4 doors for me and that was non-negotiable. I probably would have ended up in an F87 M2 CS or Supra (or another Boxster/Cayman/911) if I didn't need the rear doors, and I stand by that. There are also other 2-car approaches that now that I have the MX-5 kind of change the calculus a little bit but also- probably worth a separate conversation.

This car does that "box checking", but several other cars on the market technically do to. Some even offer a manual, which was also a prerequisite for me after learning I just couldn't live without one. Case in point, the car I was most confident about being a true "all purpose enthusiast car" was the Audi RS5. I watched every YouTube review, read every comparison article, and was convinced that it was the absolute perfect combination of enthusiast vibe and everyday practicality and comfort. Well, it was... but the part Audi didn't really pay attention to was actually making it good to drive when you're actually trying to drive it. I.e., it's not a "driver's car". The DE5/FL5 absolutely is.

What do I mean by that- really it comes down to the inputs and the sensations you get from the chassis when you're driving on a back road, or on a track (for me, I'm more of an autocross guy but that's a different rathole). If you're astute, you would have noticed that I said a manual was a "prerequisite", but the RS5 is not available in manual. That was part of my lesson with that car, but there's more to it than that. I was actually very happy with the RS5- until I tried taking it on my go-to backroads route. It just felt... empty. Like I was driving an appliance. Part of it was the steering, but the chassis too- it's a very capable car, but the experience of extracting it when it mattered just left me wanting more.

6 months later (once I got through the winter), I had another Boxster. That clearly couldn't fit my dog in it so here we are (there was also one more Boxster in between- I had to try the 4.0). I won't try to argue that my car-buying decision-making has been sound and I warned that my opinions are mine alone and may be completely irrelevant to many others... but it's given me a lot of perspective, at least.

There's obviously more to the overall story but what ended up drawing me to the FL5 and ultimately landing on the DE5 was the DNA of a "driver's car" FIRST, then fill in the gaps with practicality. Straight line performance isn't important to me- but fortunately the power delivery in these cars is actually pretty great and there's an overall balance that works well with the FWD platform. I was that guy who convinced himself he'd never have a FWD "performance" car. Once some people I respected started sharing glowing perspectives on the FL5 it started getting my attention, and now having literally just had the opportunity to autocross my Integra vs an MX-5 3 weeks apart, I daresay I appreciate both platforms equally.

The post has already gotten pretty long and I do have a workday ahead of me but hopefully this helps a bit. If there's a comparison to any particular car on my list I gave you're interested let me know.

This will be a second car for me. I want it to be awesome today, and awesome in 20 years at cars and coffee. I want to enjoy it. For me, I stop enjoying a car at around the $80k mark and begin stressing. I also don't want something like an AMG car that costs $20k to do rotors on.

Other than that, Im wide open to things, as long as they are new. I ppf cars from day 1.

Would a CTR be "selling my budget short" vs say, an M2, or a nismo z manual, or a Darkhorse?

Initially...I thought it would. After driving it, Im not so sure, so looking for more input.

 

[Higgs Boson]

I am considering a CTR for my next fun car. Some background on this...


I drove an ev6 GT for a few years. It was fast as hell and boringly reliable. I crushed almost every car that had a go at me. Roll or dig. But it lacked soul. It wasnt engaging. After a few wot blasts, it was very mundane. It also is going obsolete. The work to keep it on the road in 20 years is literally impossible or impossibly stupid to pay for. Its a consumable.

I want the opposite of that. I first came to that realization when I bought a 2011 CVPI for a beater 1.5 years ago. I put 30k miles on it by the time I added another 4k to the GT. Something about being able to work on it, the rack and pinion steering, the gutless but opinionated 4.6L v8. Vibes, man.

I want a fun car like that, but with higher limits. I want a car that in 20 years will still have a place in my garage.

Cars Ive considered: nismo z manual, m2x drive, rc-f.

But everyone keeps glazing the CTR. So I went to drive one. It absolutely demolished my expectations and I couldnt stop grinning. My only concern is...Will I miss the power? Will fwd become a burden? Is it special enough?

Id like to hear from some of you who kay also have or have cross shopped similar cars to my list.

Honestly man, your prior car list is weak AF. Get the CTR and don't look back, its a lot of fun.

 

[Unobtanium]

Honestly man, your prior car list is weak AF. Get the CTR and don't look back, its a lot of fun.

Fox body GT
Lt1 1995 trans am
Ls1 ws.6
2002 g20 sr20de
C6 z06
370z
Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7L QD2
Cx5
Cx5 turbo
Rdx aspec adv
C40p8
Ev6 gt
Rav4 prime

Ive owned all sorts of stuff, just nothing German, yet.

 

[SonicRSC]

I am considering a CTR for my next fun car. Some background on this...


I drove an ev6 GT for a few years. It was fast as hell and boringly reliable. I crushed almost every car that had a go at me. Roll or dig. But it lacked soul. It wasnt engaging. After a few wot blasts, it was very mundane. It also is going obsolete. The work to keep it on the road in 20 years is literally impossible or impossibly stupid to pay for. Its a consumable.

I want the opposite of that. I first came to that realization when I bought a 2011 CVPI for a beater 1.5 years ago. I put 30k miles on it by the time I added another 4k to the GT. Something about being able to work on it, the rack and pinion steering, the gutless but opinionated 4.6L v8. Vibes, man.

I want a fun car like that, but with higher limits. I want a car that in 20 years will still have a place in my garage.

Cars Ive considered: nismo z manual, m2x drive, rc-f.

But everyone keeps glazing the CTR. So I went to drive one. It absolutely demolished my expectations and I couldnt stop grinning. My only concern is...Will I miss the power? Will fwd become a burden? Is it special enough?

Id like to hear from some of you who kay also have or have cross shopped similar cars to my list.

I have had a Subaru STi, Honda S2000, Honda CRX, and before my current CTR I had a Circuit Edition GR Corolla. The Corolla was a 2023 and I have to tell you that was a blast. I was considering the new GRMN but for $65K that's too much. I am a big AWD fan so for me I would look at the Golf R as a possible fun performer.

 

[SonicRSC]

The only car that I had some issues with handling was the S2000 b/c of the RWD. its just a different animal and like the Z with 400HP it will be a wild child when you hit the gas sometimes.

 

[xpystchrisx]

Will it do it for you? You're asking a group of people who can't answer that question to help you make a decision that only you can make. But I'll tell you why it was the answer for me, because this is the internet and I have some time.
For me, I just came from an STI that was heavily modified. My FL5 does the daily run around stuff so well that it's arguably boring to drive on the street.
When I go autocross it comes alive. Where the STI had to be forced to do something the CTR works with you. I'm almost as fast in the CTR as with my STI just because I'm not fighting the car.
Then the part about it being "boring" comes back as a positive, becuase on the way home from a full day of running an autocross event the car just does its thing. You set cruise on the highway with the AC on full blast and it's a car.
Will it be special in 20 years? Will it get you clout at cars and coffee? You're asking questions that revolve around what other people think. So honestly, no, it probably won't do that. Because everyone that I've dealt with at a car meet or other events are concerned with whatever the latest trend is.
To me it sounds like maybe you need to drive a few more and let it rest for a month. Just don't be surprised if it "stops doing it for you" in a few months. The next car will come out, the next thing will be more awesome, the 'Ring record will be taken by another car, etc.

 

[asone]

Fox body GT
Lt1 1995 trans am
Ls1 ws.6
2002 g20 sr20de
C6 z06
370z
Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7L QD2
Cx5
Cx5 turbo
Rdx aspec adv
C40p8
Ev6 gt
Rav4 prime

Ive owned all sorts of stuff, just nothing German, yet.

Hey! You're missing the Miata! My previous car was a Miata.
I too was not sure about going FWD, but I actually like it now because it's not scary to loose traction under a hard acceleration. I also don't track the car, so I probably don't get benefit from RWD.

 

[zymmer4]

My car list pales to many..but I have been buying cars since 1962..My first "fun" car was a 1954 Morris Minor Series II convertable with an MG-B engine and gearbox tucked in..I went through a 1970 Maverick with a HIPO 289, 4 speedfrom 1970 to 1999..It was a hoot..My many Datsun, Nissan sports cars were fun, but not entertaining..My BMW 335 i was an appliance with a leaky cylinder head gasket..My four different Subaru SVT monsters were real fun, but not entertaining..Now, my FL5..that is entertaining, fun and just plain right..for me..Your milage may differ..I have owned awd,4wd, rwd, and fwd cars over the years..IF I didn't know that the FL5 was fwd, I would not really know it till the front wheels broke loose in first and 2nd gear..It rotates around tight turns at near a G of grip..it stops fairly well, and it is not plug and play..I have to be on my game when I am On The Wheel..I like that about it..If your spirited test drive did not tell you what you wanted to know..you may be looking at the wrong car..just sayin.

 

[Unobtanium]

Will it do it for you? You're asking a group of people who can't answer that question to help you make a decision that only you can make. But I'll tell you why it was the answer for me, because this is the internet and I have some time.
For me, I just came from an STI that was heavily modified. My FL5 does the daily run around stuff so well that it's arguably boring to drive on the street.
When I go autocross it comes alive. Where the STI had to be forced to do something the CTR works with you. I'm almost as fast in the CTR as with my STI just because I'm not fighting the car.
Then the part about it being "boring" comes back as a positive, becuase on the way home from a full day of running an autocross event the car just does its thing. You set cruise on the highway with the AC on full blast and it's a car.
Will it be special in 20 years? Will it get you clout at cars and coffee? You're asking questions that revolve around what other people think. So honestly, no, it probably won't do that. Because everyone that I've dealt with at a car meet or other events are concerned with whatever the latest trend is.
To me it sounds like maybe you need to drive a few more and let it rest for a month. Just don't be surprised if it "stops doing it for you" in a few months. The next car will come out, the next thing will be more awesome, the 'Ring record will be taken by another car, etc.

That is one appeal to the CTR, even more if they sell a complete HRC and I buy that---If I do get bored of it, it won't rob me on the way out the door like 99% of the others will.

 

[Unobtanium]

My car list pales to many..but I have been buying cars since 1962..My first "fun" car was a 1954 Morris Minor Series II convertable with an MG-B engine and gearbox tucked in..I went through a 1970 Maverick with a HIPO 289, 4 speedfrom 1970 to 1999..It was a hoot..My many Datsun, Nissan sports cars were fun, but not entertaining..My BMW 335 i was an appliance with a leaky cylinder head gasket..My four different Subaru SVT monsters were real fun, but not entertaining..Now, my FL5..that is entertaining, fun and just plain right..for me..Your milage may differ..I have owned awd,4wd, rwd, and fwd cars over the years..IF I didn't know that the FL5 was fwd, I would not really know it till the front wheels broke loose in first and 2nd gear..It rotates around tight turns at near a G of grip..it stops fairly well, and it is not plug and play..I have to be on my game when I am On The Wheel..I like that about it..If your spirited test drive did not tell you what you wanted to know..you may be looking at the wrong car..just sayin.

My test drive literally got me considering it. I initially just wanted to drive it so I could move on in my quest with a check mark of "yeha, whatever, I drove one. Meh". Change my channel, that drive!

Sponsored