Considering a CTR

[optronix]

This will be a second car for me. I want it to be awesome today, and awesome in 20 years at cars and coffee. I want to enjoy it. For me, I stop enjoying a car at around the $80k mark and begin stressing. I also don't want something like an AMG car that costs $20k to do rotors on.

Other than that, Im wide open to things, as long as they are new. I ppf cars from day 1.

Would a CTR be "selling my budget short" vs say, an M2, or a nismo z manual, or a Darkhorse?

Initially...I thought it would. After driving it, Im not so sure, so looking for more input.

So, if you don't need the rear doors, there's plenty of argument to be made you are selling your budget short. It also depends on what you actually want out of a car, what your intended use is, etc. All of what you mention are great cars. All also something that will very likely be looked at in 20 years as "I wish they still made them like they used to". It really just depends on what your personal tastes are.

For me, I've gotten into it a bit but I think the very important element that makes the FL5/DE5 virtually perfect for me is that it is the perfect formula of 4-door, manual, good track survivability (even vs ze Germans), and fun to drive on a back road. I even love the way it looks (for me, equally true for both the FL5 and DE5). I genuinely love this car.

But seriously, if I didn't have the 4 door requirement, I would almost certainly have something else. I've mentioned M2 CS (prior gen F87, new gen is too heavy and expensive and subjectively don't look as good), manual Supra, Cayman/Boxster (any generation), 911 (each generation has it's pros/cons worth another thread). There are probably others worth considering- Dark Horse absolutely being one but I'm just not a Mustang guy but it is definitely a great car. Camaro too if you can see out of it, CT5V BW, F8x M3/4 if you can find a clean one, they've proven pretty reliable over the years but values reflect that... I mean, list goes on. Your choices are really pretty wide open.

I will however agree though- compared to what you've owned thus far, even your updated list, the FL5 feels like it crushes them all. I don't see how you'd be disappointed unless you just continue to live in "what if" land, infinitely pontificating. I used to do that, would not recommend.

Sponsored

 

[J35W2]

I am considering a CTR for my next fun car. Some background on this...


I drove an ev6 GT for a few years. It was fast as hell and boringly reliable. I crushed almost every car that had a go at me. Roll or dig. But it lacked soul. It wasnt engaging. After a few wot blasts, it was very mundane. It also is going obsolete. The work to keep it on the road in 20 years is literally impossible or impossibly stupid to pay for. Its a consumable.

I want the opposite of that. I first came to that realization when I bought a 2011 CVPI for a beater 1.5 years ago. I put 30k miles on it by the time I added another 4k to the GT. Something about being able to work on it, the rack and pinion steering, the gutless but opinionated 4.6L v8. Vibes, man.

I want a fun car like that, but with higher limits. I want a car that in 20 years will still have a place in my garage.

Cars Ive considered: nismo z manual, m2x drive, rc-f.

But everyone keeps glazing the CTR. So I went to drive one. It absolutely demolished my expectations and I couldnt stop grinning. My only concern is...Will I miss the power? Will fwd become a burden? Is it special enough?

Id like to hear from some of you who kay also have or have cross shopped similar cars to my list.

My humble opinion. But if you want a car that pastes a smile on your face every time you drive it, for the price point, reliability & maintenance costs, it’s really hard to beat a CTR. With $10k in mods (more detail if you want it), this car is a brilliant DD or track car, if you have the cash for tires, breaks, etc. I am a Honda guy, but a 4 door, turbo hatch that is great off the floor or a demon with some investment that will endure as long as you maintain it is hard to beat.
You’re going to get biased opinions here, stock or with with $5-$10k invested, you will want to drive it ALL the time. Perhaps the best hot hatch ever & it looks the part.

If you have a beater to put miles on, this is a “lifetime” car that is a blast to mod/drive & ruins cars that cost WAY more. Aftermarket part availability is also basically endless. For a car that does everything exceptionally well, it’s hard to beat the CTR. Just get a good lawyer if you drive it at the limits on public roads.

 

[thatonedaveguy]

This will be a second car for me. I want it to be awesome today, and awesome in 20 years at cars and coffee. I want to enjoy it. For me, I stop enjoying a car at around the $80k mark and begin stressing. I also don't want something like an AMG car that costs $20k to do rotors on.

Other than that, Im wide open to things, as long as they are new. I ppf cars from day 1.

Would a CTR be "selling my budget short" vs say, an M2, or a nismo z manual, or a Darkhorse?

Initially...I thought it would. After driving it, Im not so sure, so looking for more input.

I'll keep it short and simple. If you care about the driving experience, the FL5 Type R is a superior car to the M2, Nismo Z, and Darkhorse and it's not even close. The CTR is a light weight direct handling car with a shifting experience that BMW, Nissan, and Ford have never in their history come close to matching. BMW's last good car was the first gen M2. The new Z is a grand tourer, not a driver's car. The new Mustang is a step back from the old one.

Front wheel drive means you don't launch very fast. It also means your car is lighter, you have less drivetrain power loss than RWD or AWD, and you have more trunk space lol.

Without a tune, the FL5 beats all of those cars on the track. With a completely stock car + a tune you can buy online, the FL5 walks 480HP Mustang GTs in a roll race.

 

[RODSCIVIC]

If you are asking if it's "special enough" then it won't be and you'll most likely get rid of it after a year or two. It's like people who say "it's just a civic"....yes it is, a Civic that was forbidden on these shores until 2017.

Maybe as a daily beater you would be happy while having an RCF or M2 as a weekend car?

 

[m3bs]

Lots of options to simply go fast. Driving engagement is harder to come by. I just picked up a new M2 CS yesterday, and recently sold a GT4. I’ll reserve final judgement on the M2 until after break-in, but first impressions say the FL5 is a keeper.

 

[Unobtanium]

I'll keep it short and simple. If you care about the driving experience, the FL5 Type R is a superior car to the M2, Nismo Z, and Darkhorse and it's not even close. The CTR is a light weight direct handling car with a shifting experience that BMW, Nissan, and Ford have never in their history come close to matching. BMW's last good car was the first gen M2. The new Z is a grand tourer, not a driver's car. The new Mustang is a step back from the old one.

Front wheel drive means you don't launch very fast. It also means your car is lighter, you have less drivetrain power loss than RWD or AWD, and you have more trunk space lol.

Without a tune, the FL5 beats all of those cars on the track. With a completely stock car + a tune you can buy online, the FL5 walks 480HP Mustang GTs in a roll race.

How is it from a freeway roll, bone stock, vs some other popular stuff. Say, a manual g80 or a 475hp scatpack? I know thats absurdly far from its design mission, but...

 

[Unobtanium]

Lots of options to simply go fast. Driving engagement is harder to come by. I just picked up a new M2 CS yesterday, and recently sold a GT4. I’ll reserve final judgement on the M2 until after break-in, but first impressions say the FL5 is a keeper.

Does the FL5 seem like an afterthought compared to those 2, or same same but cheaper because the interior is lower brow and what counts is same same, or is it an obvious compromise?

The interior is the one place I found myself both disappointed and excited in the ctr.

 

[thatonedaveguy]

The people who use phrases like "it's just a civic" simply have zero clue what they are talking about- most are probably under 18 or are simply pretend car enthusiasts. The Mustang GTD is $318,000 and people buy it, even though it's "just a mustang" a car you can get for $25,000".

Companies reuse the name for halo product marketing reasons- people see the CTR or GTD and think it's cool- they are more likely to buy the regular civic or mustang because it gets a little bit of cool factor from the top models- but they are very obviously very different cars.

What matters is the driving experience the car provides.

In 2017 Honda released a $35k car that beat the latest top spec $80,000 BMW M3 on the Nurburgring.

Americans routinely paid 10-20k over msrp because yes, the car is that good. You see Mustangs, M3s, Challengers every single day- they're traffic. RCF isn't even in the conversation- it's a bad car top to bottom from a driver's perspective. Type R is manual only. You see a Type R a 0 to a couple times a month- it's special. Legit ask yourself how often you see them. You take the Type R out of the garage and people everywhere drive up to take a look, cruise with you, or ask questions at gas stations. People wave to you and give you a thumbs up. Nobody on the planet doing that for someone driving a mustang or bmw. This isn't the point of owning the car, but real car enthusiasts recognize it is a car that only people that appreciate driving own- any CTR owner could easily have got a hellcat or whatever if they so chose for the same price, but they didn't- straight line speed is but a single piece of the driving equation. If straight line acceleration is all you want, you can get a Tesla Plaid for $18k used and beat anything- it's a soulless gimmick and doesn't translate to putting a smile on your face every time you drive the car.

I sold my 2019 FK8 with 30,000 miles on it for 12k over brand new MSRP. I could have easily gotten more if I was more picky.

In all the car conversations, journalism, gimmicks, and comments, it is easy to forget that weight is the #1 enemy of the driving experience. Weight reduces your acceleration, your cornering, your braking, and you general feeling of nimbleness. The reason modern cars are garbage is because makers keep adding 1000 pounds and then adding 75-100hp and keep pretending they are good to drive cars- they are not- they have become boats.

You can read endlessly about how BMW fanboys switch to Porsche and never look back. The reality is the CTR captures exactly what Porsche models offer that you do not get elsewhere- light weight, exceptional manual gearbox, tight handling and braking paired with an excellent engine. Look at the actual weight of the CTR compared to any of the cars you are comparing it with.

 

[thatonedaveguy]

How is it from a freeway roll, bone stock, vs some other popular stuff. Say, a manual g80 or a 475hp scatpack? I know thats absurdly far from its design mission, but...

FL5 will be somewhat competitive with a scatpack in a roll but it will lose. FL5 is strong in a roll for its power but 315hp stock will only go so far.

Simplest rule of thumb is just look at power to weight- that will roughly tell you how good a car is at accelerating(how fun the acceleration will be) when traction from launch is not a factor. FL5 is like 900 pounds lighter than a BMW g80.

With the Phearable or comparable tune, you're beating most stock v8 in a roll race unless it's like a hellcat or gt500- you are probably slightly losing to a g80 in a highway roll.

 

[m3bs]

Compromise? Not at all. The seats in the FL5 are ideal for me, and would be the deciding factor over the ITS if I was in the market now. I couldn’t care less about the snob appeal of fancy leather or expensive CF trim. I actually prefer cloth seats that can breathe. It’s all about the drive for me.

 

[Unobtanium]

FL5 will be somewhat competitive with a scatpack in a roll but it will lose. FL5 is strong in a roll for its power but 315hp stock will only go so far.

Simplest rule of thumb is just look at power to weight- that will roughly tell you how good a car is at accelerating(how fun the acceleration will be) when traction from launch is not a factor. FL5 is like 900 pounds lighter than a BMW g80.

I feel like gearing is huge. For example back when I had my ev6 gt, if I ran a current model mustang gt, and it was manual, nothing could save it. Id just murder the pos. With the 10 speed, even stock ones would do a slow fading loss, but it was far from the absolute clowning of the manual

 

[thatonedaveguy]

I feel like gearing is huge. For example back when I had my ev6 gt, if I ran a current model mustang gt, and it was manual, nothing could save it. Id just murder the pos. With the 10 speed, even stock ones would do a slow fading loss, but it was far from the absolute clowning of the manual

Gearing is definitely huge- and FL5 gearing I think is mainly set for fun above all else. 1st you get up to like 31, 2nd 62 ish, 3rd 83ish, 4th 115h, 5th 140, 6th 180

You can easily break traction if you floor it below 3rd- 3rd will also brake traction if you are tuned or on non ideal road/temp conditions- 4th is the most fun gear- it pulls so hard for so long

 

[Unobtanium]

Gearing is definitely huge- and FL5 gearing I think is mainly set for fun above all else. 1st you get up to like 31, 2nd 62 ish, 3rd 83ish, 4th 115h, 5th 140, 6th 180

You can easily break traction if you floor it below 3rd- 3rd will also brake traction if you are tuned or on non ideal road/temp conditions- 4th is the most fun gear- it pulls so hard for so long

I floored it in r mode in 2nd from 3500rpm and had no loss of traction during my test drive. The road was far from great surface, too.

 

[xpystchrisx]

You're talking about highway rolls and G80s... Me thinks you want a different car.

 

[AZCWTypeR]

The FL5 feels great, even in normal, around town driving. Daily during the week and track on the weekends. Also low maintenance and reliable vs. European brands.

Sponsored