FL5 Civic Type R at C&D Lightning Lap 2023 -- lap time beats FK8 by 1.9 seconds!

[s2kdriver80]

I don't understand the envy part. If they feel like they prefer the FL5, they should just go out and get it. If anything, they're *probably* in a better financial position to do so than most people who don't have an FK8, since any CTR retains its value far better than most cars. They shouldn't lose too much / as much upgrading.

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[LeoA86]

When I purchased this car the last thing on my mind is drag racing! lol I'll leave that to the Rs3(I had). Never lost a race in that Rs3. It was just stupid fast of the line. This Type r though feels like a tool around corners though. Also the shifter is a thing of beauty. When I bought this car I said to my self, we are going to a circuit to race this and see what it can do. This car will do great around a track. And for racing on the streets, just a roll race I think it will do fine. This car is by no means a dragster.

 

[tuhroo]

The head scratcher for me is why wouldn’t they want the FL5 to be a better car? If Honda never built a better Type R than the First Integra Type R none of us would even be having a discussion right now. It all boils down to envy at the end of the day. I hope the next Hybrid Type R looks better then and performs better than FL5. If the price is out of this world and I can’t afford it I’m not going to shit on it though.

i think it's the fact that most can't acquire one, so they want to hate

they literally took the fk8, took all the feedback and improved it everywhere it needed to be improved and you have an amazing end product

things i've noticed in the short time i've had this that is better over the fk8

panel fitment
paint (fk8 paint was a complete joke)
door handles/opening/closing doors (sounds dumb...but compare side by side and you'll see how solid and firm the fl5 handles are and the sound it makes when closing, just constructed much better)
interior quality
sound system
shifting is much smoother
rev-matching so much quicker
acceleration
much more planted
cooling (huge improvement)

every single person that has gone from fk8 to fl5 has said it's an upgrade for a reason, it's only a downgrade to the bozos who have yet to drive an fl5

 

[tuhroo]

I think it's that everyone has hyped it for being made in Japan (for the most part) and some may have felt like theirs is getting outshined while still being a faster drag car. All I know is that they weren't thinking about drag racing when they made this car. I don't think Honda ever had. So that comparison is fueled by, perhaps, tiny bit of envy. There's even one that's lurking around the forum trying to trigger people about it.

if you buy a type r (no matter what gen) then you bought the wrong car

the car is meant for turns around a track

an itr will lose almost all of it's quarter mile races, but will murder cars that are $100k+ around a track with ease

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

the one thing that has me laughing is that most fk8 owners simply cannot appreciate how great the fl5 is, they really think honda spent all these 6 years from the fk8 to the fl5 to only put out a new type r that is not as good

no doubt the fk8 is a great car, but they need to open their eyes and realize a japanese built type r is always going to be better than a european one, as the fl5 is literally an improvement all around

Been following the Car and Driver Lightning Lap since it launched back in 2006 whereby the 2006 Ford GT clocked the fastest lap time that first year at the 4.1 mile VIR Grand Course with a fastest time of 3:00.7.

After being a Honda/Acura enthusiast for the last ~37 years, this is just another outstanding accomplishment for Honda with respect to this 2nd generation FL5 CTR making history!

To become the first front-drive vehicle to eclipse the 3:00 minute barrier and to set a new front-drive record for the Car and Driver Lightning Lap is absolutely amazing.

What makes it even more impressive is that the CTR FL5 came in with an "As Tested Price" of $46,625 which ended up being $6,015 less than the all-wheel drive/two-seat 4 door Toyota GR Corolla Morizo Edition and by the way ended up being almost a second slower than the Honda.

Taking it one step further the 2023 Toyota GR Morizo Edition only surpassed the 2-year old 2021 FK8 LE model by just 1.1 seconds with it's "As Tested Price" being $7,630 higher than the FK8 CTR therefore confirms just how good the CTR LE was and still is.

With respect to a Japanese vehicle being better built than a European, United Kingdom or U.S. example for that matter, pretty difficult to comprehend that comment.

Do you really think that when Honda moved production of their 2nd generation NSX supercar from their Suzuka assembly plant in Japan to the PMC assembly plant in Marysville, Ohio back in 2016 that they thought quality control, fit, finish, etc. would be compromised, I don't think so?

I am sure that you are aware that the 2nd generation FL5 CTR engines are still assembled at Honda's Anna Engine Plant in Sidney, Ohio which was the same engine plant that also produced the 2nd generation NSX Supercar engines which again confirms just how much confidence Honda has when it comes to vehicle and engine production that takes place outside of Japan.

 

[SKINNIE]

90% of the FL5s purchased will never ever see a track day lmao. Who gives a shit about which car it's faster / slower than around a track. Enjoy driving the damn thing.

 

[Xchax3]

if you buy a type r (no matter what gen) then you bought the wrong car

the car is meant for turns around a track

an itr will lose almost all of it's quarter mile races, but will murder cars that are $100k+ around a track with ease

I completely agree. Whoever says the FK8 is better simply because of its ability in a drag race, is wrong. This is made for a circuit, not a 1/4 mile.

 

[Robert.C]

Nice to see it beat the chorizo GR that was also on Cup2s.

Touring car vs rally car. The Civic was always going to win.

 

[DarthTrizzle]

Been following the Car and Driver Lightning Lap since it launched back in 2006 whereby the 2006 Ford GT clocked the fastest lap time that first year at the 4.1 mile VIR Grand Course with a fastest time of 3:00.7.

After being a Honda/Acura enthusiast for the last ~37 years, this is just another outstanding accomplishment for Honda with respect to this 2nd generation FL5 CTR making history!

To become the first front-drive vehicle to eclipse the 3:00 minute barrier and to set a new front-drive record for the Car and Driver Lightning Lap is absolutely amazing.

What makes it even more impressive is that the CTR FL5 came in with an "As Tested Price" of $46,625 which ended up being $6,015 less than the all-wheel drive/two-seat 4 door Toyota GR Corolla Morizo Edition and by the way ended up being almost a second slower than the Honda.

Taking it one step further the 2023 Toyota GR Morizo Edition only surpassed the 2-year old 2021 FK8 LE model by just 1.1 seconds with it's "As Tested Price" being $7,630 higher than the FK8 CTR therefore confirms just how good the CTR LE was and still is.

With respect to a Japanese vehicle being better built than a European, United Kingdom or U.S. example for that matter, pretty difficult to comprehend that comment.

Do you really think that when Honda moved production of their 2nd generation NSX supercar from their Suzuka assembly plant in Japan to the PMC assembly plant in Marysville, Ohio back in 2016 that they thought quality control, fit, finish, etc. would be compromised, I don't think so?

I am sure that you are aware that the 2nd generation FL5 CTR engines are still assembled at Honda's Anna Engine Plant in Sidney, Ohio which was the same engine plant that also produced the 2nd generation NSX Supercar engines which again confirms just how much confidence Honda has when it comes to vehicle and engine production that takes place outside of Japan.

The Morizo doesn't even have a back seat which automatically cuts it out for me.

Also he definitely said European built and you cited two NA examples. The quality control issues out of Swindon were pretty widely known actually. I'm sure that had a role in it being shut down.

 

[POPNTEC]

i think it's the fact that most can't acquire one, so they want to hate

they literally took the fk8, took all the feedback and improved it everywhere it needed to be improved and you have an amazing end product

things i've noticed in the short time i've had this that is better over the fk8

panel fitment
paint (fk8 paint was a complete joke)
door handles/opening/closing doors (sounds dumb...but compare side by side and you'll see how solid and firm the fl5 handles are and the sound it makes when closing, just constructed much better)
interior quality
sound system
shifting is much smoother
rev-matching so much quicker
acceleration
much more planted
cooling (huge improvement)

every single person that has gone from fk8 to fl5 has said it's an upgrade for a reason, it's only a downgrade to the bozos who have yet to drive an fl5

You know the deal breaker for me on the FK8 is the cooling. I live in a very hot city in the summer time, like well over 100 degrees and that’s just the average days. My BMW dealer gave me a FK8 for the day and right off the bat I noticed the heat soaking. It really took the fun out of it knowing how good it was when everything was cool.

 

[tuhroo]

You know the deal breaker for me on the FK8 is the cooling. I live in a very hot city in the summer time, like well over 100 degrees and that’s just the average days. My BMW dealer gave me a FK8 for the day and right off the bat I noticed the heat soaking. It really took the fun out of it knowing how good it was when everything was cool.

i live in florida, where summers here are 105+ with the humidity and heat index

i started running 5w-30 in my fk8 to help with cooling during the summer...that car after 3 rounds at the auto x started giving me overheating issues

 

[POPNTEC]

i live in florida, where summers here are 105+ with the humidity and heat index

i started running 5w-30 in my fk8 to help with cooling during the summer...that car after 3 rounds at the auto x started giving me overheating issues

Yeah I noticed a big difference just in some spirited driving never mind auto X or on a track.

 

[Civiz]

Nice. Fl5 won on Suzuka as well.

Fk8 has a win over fl5 so far at Sodegaura raceway too.

Fantastic cars

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

The Morizo doesn't even have a back seat which automatically cuts it out for me.

Also he definitely said European built and you cited two NA examples. The quality control issues out of Swindon were pretty widely known actually. I'm sure that had a role in it being shut down.

Yes, I sited 2 North American Honda assembly plants as examples which obviously confirms that Honda is very comfortable building high profile models and engines outside of Japan despite what was originally mentioned by a previous poster.

Over the 5-year production run for the 1st generation CTR, the Swindon plant assembled ~48,000 FK8 CTR's for worldwide consumption with ~20,000 of that total coming to the U.S. which was about 4,000 units per year allocated to the U.S.

With that being said, you are telling me that Honda decided to shut that plant down due to quality control issues on those vehicles, where do you get some of this stuff?

Honda's decision to shut down the Swindon assembly plant was made back in 2019 and was purely a restructuring initiative and certainly nothing to so with the ~48,000 FK8 CTR's that were produced for the entire world over the 5-year production run including another ~20,000 units that were produced for the 2020 and 2021 MY's which were built after Honda's 2019 decision to close Swindon.

No question that the FL5 is an outstanding vehicle in all aspects and the only concern I have centers around the MSRP pricing for this 2nd generation CTR model.

After taking a look at the WS for my 2018 CTR and comparing it with the price as listed by C&D for the 2023 FL5, the price has increased $11,030 over my previous 2018 model which represents a 31% increase in price let alone discussing ADM's over and above that.

 

[DarthTrizzle]

Yes, I sited 2 North American Honda assembly plants as examples which obviously confirms that Honda is very comfortable building high profile models and engines outside of Japan despite what was originally mentioned by a previous poster.

Over the 5-year production run for the 1st generation CTR, the Swindon plant assembled ~48,000 FK8 CTR's for worldwide consumption with ~20,000 of that total coming to the U.S. which was about 4,000 units per year allocated to the U.S.

With that being said, you are telling me that Honda decided to shut that plant down due to quality control issues on those vehicles, where do you get some of this stuff?

Honda's decision to shut down the Swindon assembly plant was made back in 2019 and was purely a restructuring initiative and certainly nothing to so with the ~48,000 FK8 CTR's that were produced for the entire world over the 5-year production run including another ~20,000 units that were produced for the 2020 and 2021 MY's which were built after Honda's 2019 decision to close Swindon.

No question that the FL5 is an outstanding vehicle in all aspects and the only concern I have centers around the MSRP pricing for this 2nd generation CTR model.

After taking a look at the WS for my 2018 CTR and comparing it with the price as listed by C&D for the 2023 FL5, the price has increased $11,030 over my previous 2018 model which represents a 31% increase in price let alone discussing ADM's over and above that.

I just said it played a role. I know global logistics is the main factor. I will say my US built Si seemed to be a better built car than my gf's Swindon built sport hatch. Panel fit was much better and although my Si was 4 years older it creaked and rattled a lot less. Course that's anecdotal to my case alone and nothing to do with the FK8 or the FL5. I think the perception is Japan builds better cars than Europe and as we always said in the restaurant biz " customer perception is our reality."

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