FL5 Civic Type R at C&D Lightning Lap 2023 -- lap time beats FK8 by 1.9 seconds!

[TDC50]

Yes, I sited 2 North American Honda assembly plants as examples which obviously confirms that Honda is very comfortable building high profile models and engines outside of Japan despite what was originally mentioned by a previous poster.

Over the 5-year production run for the 1st generation CTR, the Swindon plant assembled ~48,000 FK8 CTR's for worldwide consumption with ~20,000 of that total coming to the U.S. which was about 4,000 units per year allocated to the U.S.

With that being said, you are telling me that Honda decided to shut that plant down due to quality control issues on those vehicles, where do you get some of this stuff?

Honda's decision to shut down the Swindon assembly plant was made back in 2019 and was purely a restructuring initiative and certainly nothing to so with the ~48,000 FK8 CTR's that were produced for the entire world over the 5-year production run including another ~20,000 units that were produced for the 2020 and 2021 MY's which were built after Honda's 2019 decision to close Swindon.

No question that the FL5 is an outstanding vehicle in all aspects and the only concern I have centers around the MSRP pricing for this 2nd generation CTR model.

After taking a look at the WS for my 2018 CTR and comparing it with the price as listed by C&D for the 2023 FL5, the price has increased $11,030 over my previous 2018 model which represents a 31% increase in price let alone discussing ADM's over and above that.

2018 Honda Pilot base price when new $31,895
2023 Honda Pilot base price $40,495
Increase of 27%

Median home price in US in 2018 was ~ $320,000
Median home price in US in 2022 was ~ $455,000
Increase of 42%

INFLATION IS A BITCH. THANK YOU UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT FOR ALL THE HANDOUTS THAT DESTROYED ANYONE WITH CASH SAVINGS

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[Tickle]

2018 Honda Pilot base price when new $31,895
2023 Honda Pilot base price $40,495
Increase of 27%

Median home price in US in 2018 was ~ $320,000
Median home price in US in 2022 was ~ $455,000
Increase of 42%

INFLATION IS A BITCH. THANK YOU UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT FOR ALL THE HANDOUTS THAT DESTROYED ANYONE WITH CASH SAVINGS

This is somewhat misleading.

The LX trim which was once the base is no longer produced. The Sport has replaced it.

The LX Pilot isn't common. I may have seen a handful new through an entire generation in my area.

 

[TDC50]

Understood and thanks for that info. I wonder what options the sport has vs the lx doesn’t have. Oh well, median home price is still eye popping at 40% increase over 4 short years. Glad I have a home to offset the inflation

 

[CTR]

I think it's only fair to compare MSRP of other current new vehicles at the time.

Inflation has done a number on the value of so many things and comparing the MSRP to cars before COVID is irrelevant.

 

[JAMSXR]

Just picked up on this in the Evo review.. I had no idea.

‘Japanese and European-specification Type Rs feature the full-fat tune, producing 324bhp at 6500rpm. Models sold in American and Australian markets make do with a 316bhp version for the sake of the lower-octane fuels sold there.’

 

[VarmintCong]

Just picked up on this in the Evo review.. I had no idea.

‘Japanese and European-specification Type Rs feature the full-fat tune, producing 324bhp at 6500rpm. Models sold in American and Australian markets make do with a 316bhp version for the sake of the lower-octane fuels sold there.’

I'd guess it's just SAE hp vs Europe, not a real power difference.

 

[carrot_chaser]

This comes up over and over. They have to account for a lower octane available in the US, if you put in 93 it produces the same amount of HP. There is no different tune for the different markets.

 

[JAMSXR]

Strange that Evo would get that wrong, they’ve been in this game long enough…

Turns out they are not the only ones. Here they clearly refer to the US model having a different tune.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-honda-civic-type-r-horsepower-numbers-leaked/amp/

 

[MrB]

This comes up over and over. They have to account for a lower octane available in the US, if you put in 93 it produces the same amount of HP. There is no different tune for the different markets.

I'm not sure that's right. Octane in standard petrol in the UK is 95, premium fuel is 97 or 99 octane, so it makes sense to have a different tune to maximise that.

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

i think it's the fact that most can't acquire one, so they want to hate

they literally took the fk8, took all the feedback and improved it everywhere it needed to be improved and you have an amazing end product

things i've noticed in the short time i've had this that is better over the fk8

panel fitment
paint (fk8 paint was a complete joke)
door handles/opening/closing doors (sounds dumb...but compare side by side and you'll see how solid and firm the fl5 handles are and the sound it makes when closing, just constructed much better)
interior quality
sound system
shifting is much smoother
rev-matching so much quicker
acceleration
much more planted
cooling (huge improvement)

every single person that has gone from fk8 to fl5 has said it's an upgrade for a reason, it's only a downgrade to the bozos who have yet to drive an fl5

Based on your extensive list of issues for the 5-year run of the CTR FK8 it is a wonder that Honda was actually able to sell over 48,000 units around the world let alone be awarded so many world wide automotive awards and accolades over the years.

Obviously the automotive press and more importantly us automotive enthusiasts had no idea what we were doing and should have maybe purchased a new GTI, WRX or Focus RS?

Talk about hate, suggest that maybe you need to take a good look in the mirror.

 

[tuhroo]

Based on your extensive list of issues for the 5-year run of the CTR FK8 it is a wonder that Honda was actually able to sell over 48,000 units around the world let alone be awarded so many world wide automotive awards and accolades over the years.

Obviously the automotive press and more importantly us automotive enthusiasts had no idea what we were doing and should have maybe purchased a new GTI, WRX or Focus RS?

Talk about hate, suggest that maybe you need to take a good look in the mirror.

i had an fk8 probably before most, it's not hate when it's all things i experienced while owning the actual vehicle not reading articles and forums to gather info

you sound like one of these guys thinking honda spend 6 years working on a vehicle to only make it worse...

let me go piece by piece for you, since i have owned both fk8 (longer than you have had your precious overpriced le's) and my fl5

1. panel fitment - the fk8 was notorious for a horrible fitting front bumper/grill would sag and separate from top portion of the bumper, the skirts were horribly fitting with the fake rear plastic double sided taped flare
2. paint (fk8 paint was a complete joke) - the fk8 paint was one of the worst on any honda ever, my brothers black fk8 (which he had far before you had one as well) was almost gray because of how bad the paint was on that car and numerous friends who are detailers said ppf is a must because of how thin and low quality that paint was
3. door handles/opening/closing doors (sounds dumb...but compare side by side and you'll see how solid and firm the fl5 handles are and the sound it makes when closing, just constructed much better) - pretty self explanatory
4. interior quality - materials all around are better on front seats, door panels are constructed better, less cabin noise and rattles
5. sound system - the surround sound bose system embarrasses the entire audio disaster in the fk8
6. shifting is much smoother - self explanatory
7. rev-matching so much quicker - lighter flywheel makes it much more responsive when downshifting (again you won't know since you don't have an fl5)
8. acceleration - smoother power delivery and the turbo lag is much improved
9. much more planted - the suspension bushing/tire improvements have clearly helped keep the car stay more stable and planted to the floor with a similar driving feel/comfort
10 - cooling (huge improvement) - one of the biggest problems with the fk8 early models, even so bad that honda changed the grill on the later model fk8 as a known issue ( guess they were hating on their own car)

like i said before...honda spent time taking what they had with the fk8 and making it better...you call it hate, i call it the truth

arguing like a japanese built and developed type r isn't going to be better than a british built one

 

[Tickle]

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

i had an fk8 probably before most, it's not hate when it's all things i experienced while owning the actual vehicle not reading articles and forums to gather info

you sound like one of these guys thinking honda spend 6 years working on a vehicle to only make it worse...

let me go piece by piece for you, since i have owned both fk8 (longer than you have had your precious overpriced le's) and my fl5

1. panel fitment - the fk8 was notorious for a horrible fitting front bumper/grill would sag and separate from top portion of the bumper, the skirts were horribly fitting with the fake rear plastic double sided taped flare
2. paint (fk8 paint was a complete joke) - the fk8 paint was one of the worst on any honda ever, my brothers black fk8 (which he had far before you had one as well) was almost gray because of how bad the paint was on that car and numerous friends who are detailers said ppf is a must because of how thin and low quality that paint was
3. door handles/opening/closing doors (sounds dumb...but compare side by side and you'll see how solid and firm the fl5 handles are and the sound it makes when closing, just constructed much better) - pretty self explanatory
4. interior quality - materials all around are better on front seats, door panels are constructed better, less cabin noise and rattles
5. sound system - the surround sound bose system embarrasses the entire audio disaster in the fk8
6. shifting is much smoother - self explanatory
7. rev-matching so much quicker - lighter flywheel makes it much more responsive when downshifting (again you won't know since you don't have an fl5)
8. acceleration - smoother power delivery and the turbo lag is much improved
9. much more planted - the suspension bushing/tire improvements have clearly helped keep the car stay more stable and planted to the floor with a similar driving feel/comfort
10 - cooling (huge improvement) - one of the biggest problems with the fk8 early models, even so bad that honda changed the grill on the later model fk8 as a known issue ( guess they were hating on their own car)

like i said before...honda spent time taking what they had with the fk8 and making it better...you call it hate, i call it the truth

arguing like a japanese built and developed type r isn't going to be better than a british built one

Appreciate all your detailed explanations and so sorry to hear about your negative experience with your 2017 CTR as that was certainly not the case when I purchased my 2018 CTR some 5 years ago as my wife and I both loved driving that vehicle especially when in a spirited manner.

Based on owning a CTR from the 2nd model year I certainly don't have to rely on your immature assumption that I have to resort to automotive articles or forums in order to provide my opinions.

Put ~8,000 miles on my 2018 CTR and it was outstanding from a fit, finish and performance standpoint and sold it a year later back to the same Honda dealership that I bought it from for pretty much what I originally paid for it, so how good was that.

Long before you obtained your 2017 CTR I purchased brand new a 1987 Integra LS, the 1992 Acura Integra GS-R launch vehicle from Honda and have owned many other Honda models/vehicles which included a 2020 MDX PMC therefore your assumption has absolutely no merit as far as ownership and experience with the Honda brand.

As I posted earlier, there is no question that the FL5 is an outstanding automobile and that is based on conversations with other fellow CTR enthusiasts.

The biggest difference between us is that I respect, enjoy and appreciate both CTR generations unlike you who hates, dislikes and has nothing good to say about the FK8 vehicles.

Again it was unfortunate that you had such a negative experience with your 2017 CTR and maybe I just got lucky with my FK8's, but I don't think so!

 

[tuhroo]

8,000 miles? lol...i put 28k in 1 year on my fk8, like i said...you didn't drive your car enough to understand these issues including multiple auto-x's, track days, etc.

nobody said i hate the fk8...i loved it, but once again you're missing the point...the fl5 is an fk8 that has been refined...all the bad from the fk8 has been wiped out...honda even realized that the hood vent/scoop was in the wrong location all along

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

8,000 miles? lol...i put 28k in 1 year on my fk8, like i said...you didn't drive your car enough to understand these issues including multiple auto-x's, track days, etc.

nobody said i hate the fk8...i loved it, but once again you're missing the point...the fl5 is an fk8 that has been refined...all the bad from the fk8 has been wiped out...honda even realized that the hood vent/scoop was in the wrong location all along

A short recap of your previous remarks.

* Notorious fitting front bumper/grill with bumper sag with the skirts fitting horribly
* FK8 paint was a complete joke
* An embarrassing Bose audio system
* Inferior material quality
* Inferior door handles/opening/closing doors
* More cabin noise and rattles
* Inferior rev matching and the list goes on

In spite of all of the above you loved your FK8, and after 8,000 miles of driving my 2018 I had no understanding of my CTR, now that is hilarious!

Carry on as many of your comments are simply beyond comprehension.

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