FL5/DE5 Transmission fluid reference

[Spart]

Please let me know if anyone has used transmission oil analysis or I can also start a new thread to collect the data and keep this thread free of Blackstone reports.

I do not mind Blackstone reports here (please post them!)

I do mind the AI slop and there really aught to be a forum rule against it.

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[johnloov]

Here is my Blackstone report after 3800 miles with the Factory fill - Tracked mostly 80% of those miles at Laguna Seca. In two weeks we will have the 10,000 mile report, and it was also mostly 80% driving to track and racing and back into the garage. I will drive 4 track days at COTA and ~2000 miles before the next transmission MTF fluid change and sync with my oil change to see if that service interval is best. I'll stick with Honda MTF as a baseline then experiment with other brands. If anyone has a Virgin Oil Sample of MTF, please provide it as a baseline.

 

[Spart]

This was posted as a VOA of Honda MTF on BITOG by user himemsys:

 

[johnloov]

Excellent! Thanks!!

Here is what I am deducing high level from that data:

1) Flashpoint 375 down to 325 - Inline with heat
2) Iron 2 up to 106 - big jump - real wear metal in oil
3) CST 100c - still in grade - 6.96 down to 6.54
4) Silicon 3 up to 26

The first transmission fluid change - I assume also had break in contaminants

I'll probably stick with changing the oil and transmission fluid together at 4 track days and ~2000 miles. I was advised I could go two oil changes before changing transmission fluid, but that may not be the case on a stock setup without an oil cooler.

Appreciate the feedback

 

[johnloov]

Here is the latest Blackstone results from the transmission fluid.

This was about 10-12 track hard track days - 6,642 miles since first change with MTF - 10,442 total miles on car.

It was much better results than I expected vs first change. Flashpoint 445F. Has Honda changed the formula?

Now curious what transmission fluid was in there from the factory that didn't perform as well, or was the initial break in that aggressive?

 

[Spart]

Interesting regarding the flashpoint. I don't know what would change that.

(Not saying it's impossible that it's the same fluid, but I just don't know.)

 

[johnloov]

Here is another interesting observation after racing on the latest MTF transmission fluid. After the first flush the transmission felt much better and after the second flush it felt even better, and now I'm wondering is that what we all should be doing - flushing out break in metals during the initial break multiple times within 10,000 miles. Maybe 3k, 6k, and then 10k. It takes 10,000 miles also to break in and flush out all engine break in metals as we proved in the engine oil thread, and that was also backed by Lake Speed Junior.

It seems it's the case with the tranmission fluid. There is a big difference between my first change and second change.

This weekend I ran two advanced sessions at COTA and my friend also ran two days in yellow in my car, so total of 4 track days. The car got absolutely hammered.

It's looking like I will change the transmission fluid every 8 track days ( ~4000-5000 miles ) and see if that interval works out. It seems the change interval initially from the data should be at 3500 miles or so based on the data.

Honda may have changed the MTF formula - I'll check the bottle and report.

Appreciate scientific feedback.

Sample	Miles	cSt @100C	Flashpoint	Insolubles	Iron	Copper	Read
Virgin Honda MTF	0	6.96	375	0.0	2	0	Baseline
Honda OEM Fill Transmission Fluid	3,800	6.54	325	0.6	106	19	Dirty / loaded up
Honda MTF 2025 USA Dealership	6,642	7.61	445	0.1	74	6	Much better

 

[Spart]

Honda may have changed the MTF formula - I'll check the bottle and report.

It's possible that there's a regional difference as well. Different supplier where the car was built vs what we get in the USA.

 

[johnloov]

Looks like this is a newer bottle version - which says "New and Improved Formula" - I'll maybe send in a virgin sample to get it tested or just take another drain at 6000 miles and see how it performs. The newer bottle style looks like it was circulated in ~2024 ( Need to confirm ). I assume like the engine oil industry, they are constantly making improvements without announcing it. Also I smelled it, and I made a mistake saying my previous transmission fluid was burnt - it had the same burnt smell new - so making a correction on that observation. It does seem with the much higher flashpoint, Honda did some reformulation and the new formula did very well compared to what came in the car.

older bottles look like this -

 

[Jack90210]

All of those bottles say "New And Improved Formula," just saying.

 

[johnloov]

All of those bottles say "New And Improved Formula," just saying.

Good point, looks like they continuously improve formula and bottle designs like engine oil formulas.

 

[Spart]

Note that the bottle you posted says that it's made in the USA.

Here's what's listed on the Japanese Honda site (used Google Translate)

I found a part number for it of 08261-99964.

Here's a side view of that can:

Using my phone's camera translator, the Japanese writing appears to be boilerplate saying that it's manual transmission fluid, not to set it on fire, that it's a class IV petroleum, follow the manual, and an address in Tokyo.

It also clearly says made in Japan, in English.

So at the bare minimum, the Honda MTF available here in the US is not made in the same place as the MTF available in Japan. Doesn't mean the formulation isn't at least similar or even the same, but different supply chain all the same.

Here's the other side:

I used my phone's camera translator and that appears to be mostly boilerplate safety info. Nothing too interesting.

 

[Spart]

Here's another variant, this one appears to be sold in the EU.

Part number 08267-99902 (I see 08267-99902-HE and 08267-99902-PRO, difference appears to just be packaging.)

Appears to be made in the UK:

If that's hard to read, near the bottom it says: "Country of origin: UK"

 

[Spart]

Updated OP with info about these Liqui Moly products:

Top Tec MTF 5100 75W
Top Tec MTF 5200 75W-80
Top Tec MTF 5300 70W-75
Top Tec MTF 5400 75W-90

I found out about this whole product line from a review of 5200 (75W-80) on the New Zealand Honda forum:

https://nzhondas.com/topic/189765-reliable-and-accessible-alternative-found-for-honda-mtf/

 

[johnloov]

This is all very very interesting and thanks everyone for those details.

I think the common theme with both engine oil analysis and transmission oil analysis is that it's critical to change the fluids on a new car as all those break in metals break up in the engine oil and same with the transmission oil and as those metallic parts flow through the system, you are getting the most wear - my conclusion is no matter what fluid you choose ( make sure it' s compatible with this car ), replacing it a few times on a new car that's driven hard during break in is very important - more important than the fluid you choose - as those metals floating around will produce the most wear.

Very interesting results. The good news is - I'm not cooking my transmission fluid - at least this new USA Honda MTF - flashpoint stayed very high - and I'm still surprised how bad my blackstone report was from the first 3k change.

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