I HOPE HONDA HEARS THIS ABOUT FL5 PRICING!

[captainscott60]

Not mad at anyone. Right now it has gotten comical. Just saying I think honda could do something.

I hate to brake the Bad news to you, But Honda won’t do anything, Nada !!!!! Unfortunately. They could care less.

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[CTR]

It sucks but what else do you propose? A lottery?

Nobody likes paying markup but I suspect that used FL5's will be going for $50K-$55K for some time. This means a $5K-$10K ADM is probably appropriate. It doesn't help that cars have inflated in price just like everything else so the MSRP is already pretty high.

Put the energy into searching for a dealer that doesn't do markup or wait 2-3 years to see what happens. Complaining on a forum is not the solution. Heck you could probably put the same energy into earning an extra $5K so the markup is a wash. It's all a matter of what your time is worth and how bad you want the car.

 

[machimself]

The frustration is understandable, but if you put your anger and frustration into effort finding one at a reasonable and reputable dealer you could do it. Just takes some dedication. I’m a regular dude and while I didn’t pay MSRP I got $5k worth of accessories including the forged wheels with my purchase because I put in the time and energy.

I almost walked on my deal because they wanted $5k no accessories, sent a quick email to the GM and asked him if that $5k was worth all of my potential future business. He didn’t think so and we made a deal. I bet if you went into one of those dealerships asking $5k over and were seriously ready to buy you could get something similar.

Also, if you think even $5k is such a huge amount of bullshit, you probably shouldn’t be buying a $44k car anyways. Get an Si, they are amazing for the money.

 

[DarthTrizzle]

The frustration is understandable, but if you put your anger and frustration into effort finding one at a reasonable and reputable dealer you could do it. Just takes some dedication. I’m a regular dude and while I didn’t pay MSRP I got $5k worth of accessories including the forged wheels with my purchase because I put in the time and energy.

I almost walked on my deal because they wanted $5k no accessories, sent a quick email to the GM and asked him if that $5k was worth all of my potential future business. He didn’t think so and we made a deal. I bet if you went into one of those dealerships asking $5k over and were seriously ready to buy you could get something similar.

Also, if you think even $5k is such a huge amount of bullshit, you probably shouldn’t be buying a $44k car anyways. Get an Si, they are amazing for the money.

I took advantage of the current used car market to upgrade from a 17 Si. The crazy equity I had in that pretty much washed the markup I had to pay. I also went through a dealer that I have bought a few vehicles from and always treated me well. You just have to do a little legwork and you can find a deal that works for you. There are five dealers near me and four of them seemed shady from the time I spoke to them on the phone. I also remember this exact same drama when the FK8 released so it's not exactly a new thing either.

 

[mcharity]

I think the only thing automotive manufacturers could do is help push more rules and regulations around the sale of the vehicle to do away with markups. But you've seen how it works in Canada and obviously that doesn't prevent dealerships from making people pay more than MSRP. Sure we could do direct sale from the manufacturer but that won't prevent people from flipping the car which is honestly just as bad if not worse than dealing with markups.

The way I see it, if you truly want this car bad enough, you will call and hound every dealer you think has a shot at getting you one of these for the right price. I'm not advocating for paying markups because I'm not personally happy I had to pay an extra 5k for the car over MSRP (personally i dont like spending money at all, so free wouldve been nice), but my overarching point is this is not on the manufacturer and while they can do things to alleviate the situation, people will find loopholes or take advantage of whatever they do in terms of buying and selling the vehicle.

I know a lot of people hate capitalism and see it as an evil in some sense, but honestly I think it's one of the best economic systems in the world given the freedom and flexibility of allowing people to spend their money how they want, where they want, and for whatever they want. I also believe the same for the sellers. Just my opinion.

Either way, try to put your frustrations aside (assuming youre frustrated) and do the work to get the car. I know I sound like a clown saying this, but there is a dealer out there that will work with you to sell you the car for a price you'd like to pay within reason, you just gotta keep trying man. Good luck

Actually I’d wager flippers are much less bad than dealer markup. You see a flipper has actual skin in the game. They paid for a car, with taxes and all the fees included. This flipper needs to find someone who wants the car even more than they do. If the flipper cannot sell the car for more then they have taken a huge loss. Losses that simply don’t exist in the dealership world. No dealership has ever lost money selling a Type R for MSRP.

Plus dealerships get a steady supply of new cars for a guaranteed price and sell them for a higher price. Along the way they get all sorts of kickbacks from the OEM.

I’m not sure why when markups come into play everyone needs to include a line where they mention they “love capitalism”. Capitalism like all economic systems is imperfect and requires constant input from the public in order to keep it operating properly.

Btw. The dealership monopsony is not the best example of Capitalism. One entity having the sole legal right to provide “X” product to the consumers in an area, isn’t really what Capitalism was supposed to encourage. Yes, buying out of state is possible but dealerships are incentivized to sell within their local market.

______

I’m not even going to touch what Capitalism would say about one dealership group owning multiple brands within a local area. Preventing anyone else from establishing a competing business and meaning that competing brands no longer need to compete on price because ultimately they are owned by the same entity.

 

[mcharity]

It sucks but what else do you propose? A lottery?

Nobody likes paying markup but I suspect that used FL5's will be going for $50K-$55K for some time. This means a $5K-$10K ADM is probably appropriate. It doesn't help that cars have inflated in price just like everything else so the MSRP is already pretty high.

Put the energy into searching for a dealer that doesn't do markup or wait 2-3 years to see what happens. Complaining on a forum is not the solution. Heck you could probably put the same energy into earning an extra $5K so the markup is a wash. It's all a matter of what your time is worth and how bad you want the car.

The markup is never a wash. This is the poor financial thinking that keeps people from reaching their financial goals. The markup comes at the expense of time and opportunity cost. However long you worked to pay for that $5,000 ADM is now worthless. The family and friends you didn’t see, the experiences you didn’t have so you can give away 5k for the pleasure of spending 45k.

That extra 5k could have been invested or saved and given you a return for the rest of your life. That’s what you’re giving up on.

 

[mcharity]

I took advantage of the current used car market to upgrade from a 17 Si. The crazy equity I had in that pretty much washed the markup I had to pay. I also went through a dealer that I have bought a few vehicles from and always treated me well. You just have to do a little legwork and you can find a deal that works for you. There are five dealers near me and four of them seemed shady from the time I spoke to them on the phone. I also remember this exact same drama when the FK8 released so it's not exactly a new thing either.

It didn’t wash the markup. You chose to throw away equity for the privilege of buying a car.

 

[MoodySara]

MSRP is just a number. In my opinion, it's not even the most important number.
The only thing I care about is the size of the check I have to write. That's after all the haggling, appraisals on whatever I might be trading, fees, taxes, etc.
I'm fortunate to live in a state with no sales tax, so I'm immediately ahead of most buyers in sales tax states.
Once I know the 'real' number, I can decide if the deal looks like something I want.
If not, I walk.

 

[Tickle]

These topics really will never go anywhere.

Still... I'm so dumb. Here goes...

In the end we all value a dollar differently. There are things I spend money on that many would never be able to justify. I'm sure there are examples we can all provide.

This model for purchasing isn't perfect but it is what we have. It has been tuned and polished by buyers and sellers alike. It is all about protecting the all mighty dollar. I would expect a buyer to do it. I would expect a seller to do it.

Lots of talk about the Tesla Model. It certainly has its flaws as we have recently seen in the media. Oh and make no mistake about it... Manufacturer to the consumer. It may feel good... But the purpose for manufacturers is to make more profit. Auto sales is one of the last areas where completion is real. Furthering innovation and competitive pricing. It may not seem like it because of the restraints the industry has dealt with in recent history but I can assure you it still is that.

I think truly in the end American people want to negotiate. I sell vehicles. New and used. MSRP means little to the buyer when supply is high and apparently means the world to the buyer when it's low.

The market will set itself. It is the most sure and stable way. Right now simply isn't a great time to buy. Video reviews, hype and forums like ours get everyone hyped up.

Eventually the dust will settle. Mark ups will come down and there will be more MSRP transactions.

So... You have to decide if you want to pay the early adopter fee, be it time or money or some combination of both. If you do... Great. If not.. great!

 

[SP R KiD]

Actually I’d wager flippers are much less bad than dealer markup. You see a flipper has actual skin in the game. They paid for a car, with taxes and all the fees included. This flipper needs to find someone who wants the car even more than they do. If the flipper cannot sell the car for more then they have taken a huge loss. Losses that simply don’t exist in the dealership world. No dealership has ever lost money selling a Type R for MSRP.

Why would you wager something based on opinion lol. Idk how the concept that flippers have "more skin in the game" makes them any better or worse. It literally just adds an extra layer of the situation people already don't like. I'm sorry no, flippers aren't any better and in my opinion (not wagering anything here ) are far worse because now you realize they bought the car for MSRP and you missed out on that opportunity because they exist. Idc what dealers do simply because I can do what I want with my money where I want, how I want, whenever I want.

Plus dealerships get a steady supply of new cars for a guaranteed price and sell them for a higher price. Along the way they get all sorts of kickbacks from the OEM.

I’m not sure why when markups come into play everyone needs to include a line where they mention they “love capitalism”. Capitalism like all economic systems is imperfect and requires constant input from the public in order to keep it operating properly.

Btw. The dealership monopsony is not the best example of Capitalism. One entity having the sole legal right to provide “X” product to the consumers in an area, isn’t really what Capitalism was supposed to encourage. Yes, buying out of state is possible but dealerships are incentivized to sell within their local market.

______

I’m not even going to touch what Capitalism would say about one dealership group owning multiple brands within a local area. Preventing anyone else from establishing a competing business and meaning that competing brands no longer need to compete on price because ultimately they are owned by the same entity.

There isnt much to touch on with regard why I or anyone else love capitalism except that it's simply relevant to the conversation in terms of its your money if you want something bad enough make it happen. You can sit here and complain all day and point the finger at dealerships or whoever you want but if you were in the same boat and owned something with incredible value would you really be selling it for the bare minimum price simply because someone said you should? No. If you say otherwise there are some extreme conditions at play that you refuse to get as much as you can out of said product/service.

 

[mcharity]

Why would you wager something based on opinion lol. Idk how the concept that flippers have more skin in the game" makes them any better or worse. It literally just adds an extra layer of the situation people already don't like. I'm sorry no flippers aren't any better and in my opinion (not wagering anything here ) are far worse because now you realize they bought the car for MSRP and you missed out on that opportunity because they exist. Idc what dealers do simply because I can do what I want with my money where I want, how I want, whenever I want.


There isnt much to touch on with regard why I or anyone else love capitalism except that it's simply relevant to the conversation in terms of its your money if you want something bad enough make it happen. You can sit here and complain all day and point the finger at dealerships or whoever you want but if you were in the same boat and owned something with incredible value would you really be selling it for the bare minimum price simply because someone said you should? No. If you say otherwise there are some extreme conditions at play that you refuse to get as much as you can out of said product/service.

But you don’t know that flippers bought the car for MSRP. If cars were readily available at MSRP then flippers would be reliant upon someone wanting a car so badly they would be willing to pay to “skip the line”. The market would be better because MSRP would be available if a person was patient. Whereas now people pay markup because MSRP is never guaranteed.

The same “ I can do what I want with my money where I want, how I want, whenever I want” applies to everyone. So not sure how that’s relevant.

Your last point ignores that under capitalism the bare minimum cost is the desired goal. Capitalism says dealerships compete on price but due to their lobbying they do not need too. In fact dealerships cooperate to charge inflated prices.

The problem isn’t capitalism. The problem is we ARE NOT DOING capitalism.

 

[SP R KiD]

But you don’t know that flippers bought the car for MSRP. If cars were readily available at MSRP then flippers would be reliant upon someone wanting a car so badly they would be willing to pay to “skip the line”. The market would be better because MSRP would be available if a person was patient. Whereas now people pay markup because MSRP is never guaranteed.

The same “ I can do what I want with my money where I want, how I want, whenever I want” applies to everyone. So not sure how that’s relevant.

Your last point ignores that under capitalism the bare minimum cost is the desired goal. Capitalism says dealerships compete on price but due to their lobbying they do not need too. In fact dealerships cooperate to charge inflated prices.

The problem isn’t capitalism. The problem is we ARE NOT DOING capitalism.

Not gonna lie bro, I don't really understand your point. I also don't think a lot of what you're saying is accurate. So I think im done with you

Anyway, my main point of being in this thread is, not Hondas fault, not much can be done. Go get the car if you or don't if you don't. Kthxbye

 

[CTR]

The markup is never a wash. This is the poor financial thinking that keeps people from reaching their financial goals. The markup comes at the expense of time and opportunity cost. However long you worked to pay for that $5,000 ADM is now worthless. The family and friends you didn’t see, the experiences you didn’t have so you can give away 5k for the pleasure of spending 45k.

That extra 5k could have been invested or saved and given you a return for the rest of your life. That’s what you’re giving up on.

If you’re already spending $44K on a brand new car (not the best financial decision in the first place) $5K shouldn’t be the dealbreaker. This is close to the true value on the market currently. In 1-2 years I expect clean low mile FL5’s should be selling for over MSRP just like the inflated FK8 market. The only truly wasted money is the extra taxes you pay on the ADM and car itself.

Opportunity cost also applies to your time. If you spend 100 hours calling 100 dealers to save $2000 you’re valuing your time at $20 an hour.

 

[mcharity]

And this thread explains why so many are perpetually in debt.

 

[CTR]

Whining on a forum will not change the fact that dealers will keep doing this if the market allows for it.

Nobody is getting this car for below sticker so a “good deal” right now is MSRP or $5K ADM. I suspect many of these people getting these deals are getting hosed on their trade in and the dealer is playing games with the numbers to make them feel good about it.

@mcharity if you magically get an MSRP deal and the used car market in 2-3 years is $5K over the original MSRP will you sell it for under value just because you should?

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