Making this car more raw?

[optronix]

I know exactly what OP is talking about when referring to "raw", and I ultimately agree that a stock FL5 misses that mark. In stock form it feels like any normal sedan going down the road, and you can't really appreciate what it actually is until you get it out onto a race track, but even in stock form on a race track it feels like it's missing some of the old 90's pizazz (rawness) that you would expect from a B16, B18 or H22.

I don't have the money, and never will have the money to afford any of those past vehicles that OP has listed, but I have driven a Porsche GTS (I think that's what it was), and I had the same complaint...the car just didn't feel raw, and it didn't feel inspiring. Was it fast...yea, but that isn't the complete picture that I was looking for.

Start with a decent tune, and do nothing else until you've given the tune a good college try. Tossing in a motor mount just makes the car shake at idle, and your kids probably won't appreciate it, hell, you might not either.

If the tune isn't enough for you then move on to some of the more fun bits, and we can give you recommendations for that if you end up needing them.

My FL5 feels incredibly raw, and I love it, but I've spent a lot of money getting it to that point, and thinking back through all of the mods, the biggest factor in changing the personality of the car was the tune, after that I'd say it was the exhaust.

While I disagree that a 911 GTS wouldn't be a comprehensive upgrade over an FL5, you do bring up a valid point that it still wouldn't be what I'd consider a raw experience, at least as it comes from the factory. Modern cars are just too good at insulating things that most people would consider undesirable for a commute, and that includes virtually any sports car intended to be driven primarily on public roads. In that sense, my initial recommendation of a Cadillac won't cut it either.

It isn't until you get to the GT3s and 570Ss of the world where that insulation becomes an afterthought, and probably in most cases for those types of cars a detriment. There's a point where the actual purpose of the car determines what level of compromise the expected buyer intends to deal with- and for those types of cars that clearly aren't expected to be driven every day in not-so-exciting conditions, it's ok for some extra road noise and chassis vibrations to slip through.

Thing is though, personally? I don't want any of that shit in this car unless I'm on an intentional fun drive or a race track, which is probably less than 5% of the time I'm in it for my personal use case. It sounds like OP doesn't use this car for every day things, so my question is why choose this platform as your "fun" car, when apparently there are other options available for daily tasks. That does not compute to me... especially when an FL5 is now expected to scratch the same itches as those dedicated track machines and exotics. That's a head scratcher to me.

But, if you still want RAW but need 4 doors and want to stay in the vicinity of the price range? You're probably going to have to either mod it to the hilt like some others suggest, or consider stepping back a few decades and look at things like an E39 M5, or B7 RS4, or maybe even an STI?

OP seems to have pulled a disappearing act anyway so this all feels like a waste of time at this point.

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[Xmetal]

A lot of your criteria and what you're asking are contradictory. For example, you want the car to hold its value and be reliable, but want to make it feel more "raw". However, once you start modifying the car, it no longer holds its value and reliability could come into play as well!

 

[Xmetal]

I guess I can’t take off the mods when I need to sell.

Depends on how far you take it. If you start stripping out your interior to take the insulation, etc... do you really want to do the same to put it back in? Is the time spent of unmodding worth the potential gain? Anything is possible.

 

[damage]

Depends on how far you take it. If you start stripping out your interior to take the insulation, etc... do you really want to do the same to put it back in? Is the time spent of unmodding worth the potential gain? Anything is possible.

True. I definitely wouldn’t take it that far. I’m not looking to turn it into a full race car or do anything that’s not reversible.

What I do find annoying so far is the road noise is really boomy in this car. I was planning to take out any sound deadening to hear the engine more or to get more sounds but it’s just probably going to increase the boomy noise. The sports cars I’ve had have more road noise but it isn’t boomy like this.

 

[Nothing]

True. I definitely wouldn’t take it that far. I’m not looking to turn it into a full race car or do anything that’s not reversible.

What I do find annoying so far is the road noise is really boomy in this car. I was planning to take out any sound deadening to hear the engine more or to get more sounds but it’s just probably going to increase the boomy noise. The sports cars I’ve had have more road noise but it isn’t boomy like this.

I think you may need to define a bit better in NVH what you are looking for.

What noise are you looking for? Engine? The engine is quiet because it is turbo, it's got a headifold, and the stock exhaust is well muffled and resonated; you can make it louder but making it sound "great" loud is not easy. Get an open element intake if you want more turbo noises. Road noise? Get quieter tires, 18s if you need to and want less vibration.

Removing sound deadening will mostly give you more road noise.

If you like vibration, swap the plush seat with a thinly padded CF/FRP bucket seat. Hard motor mounts will transmit more engine vibration. Hard subframe bushings will increase road vibrations. Coilovers will give you generally a harsher ride, but you can tune this quality with rebound adjustment.

Chassis is pretty stiff, so most chassis bracing is throwback for people who grew up with EGs and EKs. These won't do much in the way of NVH, unless you like 3 wheeling up driveways.

 

[Tougefl5]

This thread just got very confusing.

 

[Toprarnen]

This thread just got very confusing.

It's really quite simple, someone just needs to make a 4-door Caterham or Elise

 

[damage]

It's really quite simple, someone just needs to make a 4-door Caterham or Elise

bingo!

 

[Toprarnen]

bingo!

I know you said "reliable", otherwise I would suggest you try a Mini Cooper JCW at some point, see if it gives you the experience you're looking for. I'm not a Mini guy at all, can't picture myself driving one, liking one, etc., but they're highly reviewed and a couple hundred pounds lighter. I really think it's weight that changes the experience. I had more fun in a Miata than a Cayman S on the streets. That answer would probably change on the track, but I digress...

 

[ABPDE5]

Try the PRL RMM to start, imo. It's well made, it's relatively inexpensive, and it's an easy install / uninstall. It's not as extreme as other options (with solid bushings), but it gives the car enough little vibration on startup, at idle, and at low rpm to add character without turning it into a rattle trap or making life miserable for any potential passengers. Plus, it improves the wheel-hop and removes that rubber-bandy feeling that the car has under sudden acceleration stock.

It's an easy start: it makes a discernible difference in terms of engagement; it's not over the top, and it's relatively painless to swap off of if you don't like it. It's a good benchmark for deciding where you want to take the car.

 

[caraholic]

I know others have said it before it may just not be the right car for you. I have come to that conclusion as well and after two weeks decided to sell it. It’s an amazing vehicle just not quite what I was looking for.

 

[optronix]

I think the hype train does things to people's imaginations for these cars where they really do think they're going to step into a 4 door Elise.

As someone who came into this car from a history of past "high end sports cars", I'll tell anyone reading this right now what this car is not- it's not a good primary choice for a "fun car". If 4 doors and a manual transmission were not hard requirements, I would not be driving this car... and as soon as the funds free up I'll be buying another Porsche/Emira/McLaren/etc.

So when I see folks come in here with a stable full of other fun cars expecting to add to the list of cars they want to tear through the mountains with, I know I'm most likely looking at a transient member of these forums.

If the expectation shifts to a "do-it-all" car that can be a kid/dog taxi and grocery getter as well as it can be a genuine sports car, now you're in this car's sweet spot. It's not the best at either.

Best way I can explain my individual situation without breaking into full dissertation-mode- I needed something like this because I just couldn't justify having both a 911 AND an S4 like I did at one point... I tried with an RS5 and it didn't work. It does with my DE5... but also I do still occasionally get in it and think things like "wouldn't it be nice if I could put the top down and hear a glorious flat 6". It is "special" for what it is, but it doesn't truly compare to the pantheon of high end sports cars- on really any level if we're getting serious. If you have any sort of expectations beyond that you will almost surely be disappointed.

Hope that helps someone in the future avoid spending all the time looking for a car with no ADM just to turn around and list it for sale in 2 weeks...

 

[nunii]

I have a 992 gt3rs and also had some of the most expensive sedans on the market and to me the fl5 is my favorite and super raw but I wouldn’t mine a little more rawness…. So far I have a tune the car is definitely not slow anymore , prl intake a must for sound and acuity shifter also a must just did the rrm but honestly I didn’t feel much … next up I’m getting a remark exhaust… btw I returned the 5 black wing after 2 days begging the dealer to take it back

 

[nunii]

 

[jcm]

this does what you're looking for

high pressure fuel pump
can flex
e85 tune
downpipe
frontpipe
intake
charge pipe
intercooler
mhi stage 2 turbo (stock-like spool good top end)

requires a bit of extra maintenance.

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