Trading in FL5 for G80 M3?

[spectre186]

Posted this in the M3 forum as well, wanted your take.

I’m pretty much set on getting the M3, but I have seen a few people mention going from the Type R to the M3 and regretting it. I’d like to hear from anyone who’s driven both on what their thoughts were, especially if they regretted it.

As for me, I’ve done a few track days and autocrosses in my Type R. Not to be competitive, just to have fun and learn to drive better. I’d continue to do the same in the M3.

I’ve discovered I’m not a fan of FWD, much prefer RWD or AWD. The Type R can be a little too stiff at times, even in comfort mode, the damping can be pretty harsh. I’d most likely go Competition X drive with the Auto so my wife can drive it instead of making her drive my beater 99 Camry when I need to take her SUV from time to time. Got 2 kids and they both get car sick and the R with no vents in the back is rough as well.

Overall, I’d like something a bit more refined in terms of ride quality and comfort for all occupants. I understand I’ll lose out on steering feel, light weight handling, and rawness of the R. With the M3, obviously more speed, better sound, RWD or AWD driving dynamics. Anyways, those are just a few of my thoughts, interested to hear yours.

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[RODSCIVIC]

Sounds like you have already made up your mind. When it comes to refined quality and comfort it's a no brainer to switch, but you'll be back if you don't get a manual.

G80 is a nice all around vehicle. If the wagon were Stateside, I would be picking one up.

 

[svvitch]

Buy the m3. If you want to to come back plenty of fl5 for sale

 

[Clark_Kent]

I’ll try to not rehash what I stated previously since I’ve already shared a take on the other forum here.

This isn’t a clean “upgrade,” it’s a fundamental shift in philosophy. For context, I’ve been a long-time BMW M guy. When the G-series cars dropped, I more or less parted company with BMW altogether. I got proper seat time last fall in the G80/G82 including laps and driving exercises at the BMW Performance Center. That experience was valuable because it stripped away the speculation and let the car speak for itself. Here’s where I landed: there’s zero chance I’d substitute a G80 for my FL5.

The G80 is an incredibly capable machine. The power is relentless. On the street it honestly feels brutish, and on track it has serious pace. There’s tons of mechanical and electronic grip, and the way it puts power down on corner exit, especially in xDrive, is impressive. Straight-line speed isn’t even a conversation; it’s in another league compared to the Type R. But zoom out, and the driving experience as a whole just feels…average.

It feels every bit of its size at nearly 190 inches long and its weight, which is flirting with 4,000 lbs. And you can’t hide that. Not with 500 horsepower, not with AWD, not with trick diffs. It doesn’t feel agile, it doesn’t feel tossable, and it definitely doesn’t feel playful. That sense of eagerness you get in the FL5, the “let’s go again” character, evaporates.

The transmission is another step back. The ZF auto is competent, but it’s not the DCT. It lacks that immediacy and edge that used to define modern M cars. Pair that with steering that feels overly filtered, almost sim-like, and the connection just isn’t where you expect it to be for something wearing an M badge and at that price point.

And that’s really the crux of it: it doesn’t feel like what an M car used to feel like. It’s objectively fast, objectively capable, objectively refined, but subjectively, it’s missing that intangible “Ultimate Driving Machine” DNA.

Based on what you said, the G80 does solve your practical issues. Ride quality, rear seat comfort, drivetrain preference, shared usability with your wife are all real advantages. If those are priority, it’s a strong case. But if what you love about the FL5 is the engagement, the feedback, the sense of occasion even at sane speed, you will notice what’s gone.

So I’d frame it this way: If you want refinement, speed, and daily usability, G80 makes sense. If you want engagement, character, and a car that eggs you on, the FL5 is tough to replace. Personally, I couldn’t and wouldn't swap. The gap in character is just too wide for what I value in performance cars. Have you driven a G series M car? If not, you're putting the cart before the horse, IMHO.

I want to add one more thing. From my experience, Bimmerpost is the last place I would go to get an objective take on a BMW vs. anything else. They'll tell you 10:1 the FL5 is a dog and you shouldn't have bought it in the first place. What's incredibly telling to me is there is a thread that heaps well deserved praise on the FL5 in the last place you'd think to look...Rennlist. Drivers who have been in and out of proper sports cars for decades including GT cars and multiples of them have spoken very highly of the FL5. Search for the thread if you care to take a gander.

 

[spectre186]

Thanks for the extremely detailed response! Exactly what I was looking for! Definitely gives me some good points to ponder. Honestly, the bimmer forum for the most part has a lot of good things to say about the Type R. Everyone seems to agree that it’s a more engaging fun car to drive, especially at sane speeds on the street.

 

[ABPDE5]

I’ll try to not rehash what I stated previously since I’ve already shared a take on the other forum here.

This isn’t a clean “upgrade,” it’s a fundamental shift in philosophy. For context, I’ve been a long-time BMW M guy. When the G-series cars dropped, I more or less parted company with BMW altogether. I got proper seat time last fall in the G80/G82 including laps and driving exercises at the BMW Performance Center. That experience was valuable because it stripped away the speculation and let the car speak for itself. Here’s where I landed: there’s zero chance I’d substitute a G80 for my FL5.

The G80 is an incredibly capable machine. The power is relentless. On the street it honestly feels brutish, and on track it has serious pace. There’s tons of mechanical and electronic grip, and the way it puts power down on corner exit, especially in xDrive, is impressive. Straight-line speed isn’t even a conversation; it’s in another league compared to the Type R. But zoom out, and the driving experience as a whole just feels…average.

It feels every bit of its size at nearly 190 inches long and its weight, which is flirting with 4,000 lbs. And you can’t hide that. Not with 500 horsepower, not with AWD, not with trick diffs. It doesn’t feel agile, it doesn’t feel tossable, and it definitely doesn’t feel playful. That sense of eagerness you get in the FL5, the “let’s go again” character, evaporates.

The transmission is another step back. The ZF auto is competent, but it’s not the DCT. It lacks that immediacy and edge that used to define modern M cars. Pair that with steering that feels overly filtered, almost sim-like, and the connection just isn’t where you expect it to be for something wearing an M badge and at that price point.

And that’s really the crux of it: it doesn’t feel like what an M car used to feel like. It’s objectively fast, objectively capable, objectively refined, but subjectively, it’s missing that intangible “Ultimate Driving Machine” DNA.

Based on what you said, the G80 does solve your practical issues. Ride quality, rear seat comfort, drivetrain preference, shared usability with your wife are all real advantages. If those are priority, it’s a strong case. But if what you love about the FL5 is the engagement, the feedback, the sense of occasion even at sane speed, you will notice what’s gone.

So I’d frame it this way: If you want refinement, speed, and daily usability, G80 makes sense. If you want engagement, character, and a car that eggs you on, the FL5 is tough to replace. Personally, I couldn’t and wouldn't swap. The gap in character is just too wide for what I value in performance cars. Have you driven a G series M car? If not, you're putting the cart before the horse, IMHO.

I want to add one more thing. From my experience, Bimmerpost is the last place I would go to get an objective take on a BMW vs. anything else. They'll tell you 10:1 the FL5 is a dog and you shouldn't have bought it in the first place. What's incredibly telling to me is there is a thread that heaps well deserved praise on the FL5 in the last place you'd think to look...Rennlist. Drivers who have been in and out of proper sports cars for decades including GT cars and multiples of them have spoken very highly of the FL5. Search for the thread if you care to take a gander.

Good feedback, here (and I think you'll find this is consistent with the experiences of others).

OP, if you're after the luxury / performance, I think there's no question the G80 is the answer (for ex., you mentioned FWD is something you're battling with).

If it's mostly ride quality / interior driving you, might I suggest the ITS ADS (or something like the DCS module) and some acoustic treatment? $300 of killmat / aggfoam transformed the interior feel and "impression of quality" on my DE5 and was enough to treat the doors, cabin, and hatch (time commitment is not insignificant).

Either way... drive the G80 first! This is an expensive decision. Don't make it without data. Get some seat time, and then make the right decision for yourself, regardless of the feedback you get elsewhere. Hoping you find resolution either way!

 

[lilDumpsterRat]

Thanks for the extremely detailed response! Exactly what I was looking for! Definitely gives me some good points to ponder. Honestly, the bimmer forum for the most part has a lot of good things to say about the Type R. Everyone seems to agree that it’s a more engaging fun car to drive, especially at sane speeds on the street.

have you tried swapping in the integra damper module? I did and love the type R twice as much. comfort mode is actually pretty decent with it. that might help the kids.

But honestly if you have two kids in the back i might get the M just for safety. I dont feel like the civic would do as well in a collision as the M...not that anyones crashing but just peace of mind. the rear doors also feel way flimsier than the fronts- why is that?

regardless, RWD is the best feeling, but as the other guy said, I just cant believe how good it feels driving the type R, brakes, steering, throttle.. it's just superb, makes me not even care about fwd.

Well either way you'll be good, lol first world problems indeed, the M3 is a total beast, the fl5 is driving satisfaction.

 

[optronix]

I think in some cases it makes sense to switch. OP, yours might very well be one of them. The G80 I don't think could be argued is a "nicer car". But as @Clark_Kent very eloquently described it, it isn't as engaging to drive. With the one exception being power- if that part works for you then there's no question the M3 is the better choice. Some people are just wired like that- I may have been myself at one point- where putting your foot down and getting that instant blast of acceleration is exhilarating. Folks that deeply enjoy that are a perfect fit for an M3... or folks who just want a refined driving experience while still realizing they're driving a track weapon. But I know which car I'd rather be driving on a twisty canyon or forest road.

Also one other thing I'll note- just a personal observation but it might be important context for the bimmerforums reference- I ROUTINELY see G80 M3 drivers getting outpaced by FL5 drivers in autox or track settings, or just other drivers of slower cars in general. We all know the G80 is fast as hell, but that does not translate when an inexperienced driver gets in it. And feelings may be hurt as a result. I know this type of thing happens all the time (don't even get me started on Corvettes), and a couple of these drivers were very self-aware and just looking to improve... but there's a certain psychology that a lot of G80 drivers have where they did all the mental gymnastics of buying the G80 because of how capable it is, and then they discover it doesn't instantly make them Ayrton Senna. Just something I've noticed, maybe it's just me.

Also I'd love to be able to point you in the direction of an Integra Type S, but sadly it really isn't much of an upgrade at all over the FL5 in terms of pure refinement. The ADS module would get you 98% there, otherwise (although many on this forum are philosophically opposed to this statement) it's the exact same car.

I would also strongly recommend you at least check out a CT4V Blackwing. CT5V if you can swing the extra cost. They are genuinely compelling, if you can get past the fact they're GM products.

 

[AspecR]

It's difficult to follow up on what @optronix and @Clark_Kent have stated but they are totally right on this. Another thing most don't tell you about the G80 M3 is that it never actually gets interesting to drive until you're doing triple digit speeds(which it will get to with pretty much no effort of course). The ride also isn't leagues better than the FL5 when both are driven in their stiffest setting.

For your use case it probably does make more sense to go with the G80 but you will miss the FL5 if you prioritize driving engagement.

Take it from someone that sold them for 2 years, Porsche GT car owners love the FL5. I sold 4 FL5s to GT car owners which include 997.2 GT3, a 982 GT4 and 992.1 GT3s. They all confirmed that FOR THE MONEY the FL5 is the only thing that comes close to offering a GT car experience.

IDK where you live but down here in Florida, I see way more G8X cars than I do FL5s. I've had my car for over 3 years and I still get ppl telling me its the first time they've seen a civic like that.

 

[ctechauto]

The Ms. Piggy nose is a complete non-starter for me on the G80. If I'm going to get a "modern" M3, it would be the F80, which is absolutely beautifully designed and has aged very well. The G80 just looks like:

 

[Juliusoh]

I own both g80 and fl5. The stock suspension of g80 is so much better. Fl5 suspension is weird and bouncy even with the its module. If you do track it it's very competent no cooling issues. Driving to the track is a breeze. If you get rod sutphin transmission tune the shifts feel very smooth. If you get tuning by bend calibration e85 it becomes amazing. The only downside is the weight and steering feel.

 

[caraholic]

Really depends on what you want. The G80 is a nice car but is pretty stale to me over the FL5. To me if you want comfort and speed just get a model 3 performance over the G80. Much much better daily than the G80. I wouldn’t take one over an FL5 though.

 

[optronix]

The Ms. Piggy nose is a complete non-starter for me on the G80. If I'm going to get a "modern" M3, it would be the F80, which is absolutely beautifully designed and has aged very well. The G80 just looks like:

This is a great point, if you can find an F80 in great condition it may actually be a better overall fit than a G80- and you'd probably break about even on price. The F8X platform is still super capable but easily defendable from an engagement perspective vs the G8X. The suspension is not soft- even with the optional adaptive suspension- but probably better than the FL5. Loads more refinement than the FL5 (but probably stale if you're already used to BMWs from that generation), and looks infinitely better than the G8X. The F80 is the only sedan I'd argue looks better than the FL5/DE5. They are genuinely gorgeous cars and I turn my head literally any time one comes within my line of sight.

And as far as I understand it they're pretty reliable too, and can make big power with little effort. Worth a look to find a low-mileage example! I honestly don't know what I'd do if I came across a cherry manual F80 for a decent price...

 

[AspecR]

This is a great point, if you can find an F80 in great condition it may actually be a better overall fit than a G80- and you'd probably break about even on price. The F8X platform is still super capable but easily defendable from an engagement perspective vs the G8X. The suspension is not soft- even with the optional adaptive suspension- but probably better than the FL5. Loads more refinement than the FL5 (but probably stale if you're already used to BMWs from that generation), and looks infinitely better than the G8X. The F80 is the only sedan I'd argue looks better than the FL5/DE5. They are genuinely gorgeous cars and I turn my head literally any time one comes within my line of sight.

And as far as I understand it they're pretty reliable too, and can make big power with little effort. Worth a look to find a low-mileage example! I honestly don't know what I'd do if I came across a cherry manual F80 for a decent price...

Guys, can ya'll stop recommending the F80, I need the values to go down some more sheesh! They're already back in the 50s for Individual colors and low mileage Sakhir Orange F8X is getting harder to find as the days go by.

 

[optronix]

Guys, can ya'll stop recommending the F80, I need the values to go down some more sheesh! They're already back in the 50s for Individual colors and low mileage Sakhir Orange F8X is getting harder to find as the days go by.

They're future classics, no doubt about it. I miss my M4 dearly- but I bought it with the wrong transmission (the DCT is fine I just learned my lesson and can't live without a manual. The M4 was the unfortunate sacrifice...)

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