🔴💊 Engine Oil Red Pill Thread: Only Post If You Have UOA - Official Honda Civic Type R K20C1 Engine Oil Analysis

[eap35]

I have been following this thread closely, Currently live in CT, seems like my best bet is to stick 0-20 oil. Currently about 500 miles on the odometer, so first oil change is due, What oil/filter you recommend most for the FL5, based on actual science backed feedback?

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[Ktrw]

I have been following this thread closely, Currently live in CT, seems like my best bet is to stick 0-20 oil. Currently about 500 miles on the odometer, so first oil change is due, What oil/filter you recommend most for the FL5, based on actual science backed feedback?

I don't think anyone has done significant particle count testing between oil filters for our engines, or hardly for any car that I've seen that would help us determine that quantitatively.

I think the answer is that most of the oil filter options you could pick, including the oem Honda filter, are good enough and it's not really worth worrying about. We haven't reached that level of optimization yet and I'm not sure we will unless someone wants to pay for all that testing.

Obviously the best efficiency filter you can get for the relevant particle size (~20 micron, roughly bearing clearance) is optimal, but there are some factors like flow rate, capacity, and longevity that are a bit up in the air regarding what leads to the best option.

I've been running Purolator filters because from the somewhat limited quantative online tests performed with oil filters, it seemed to do a good job in all categories and the build quality is quite good. I'm going to try a Purolator One next time instead of a Boss version because it seems the lower mileage rating relates to a higher filtering efficiency for a shorter OCI and I run fairly short intervals.

 

[eap35]

I don't think anyone has done significant particle count testing between oil filters for our engines, or hardly for any car that I've seen that would help us determine that quantitatively.

I think the answer is that most of the oil filter options you could pick, including the oem Honda filter, are good enough and it's not really worth worrying about. We haven't reached that level of optimization yet and I'm not sure we will unless someone wants to pay for all that testing.

Obviously the best efficiency filter you can get for the relevant particle size (~20 micron, roughly bearing clearance) is optimal, but there are some factors like flow rate, capacity, and longevity that are a bit up in the air regarding what leads to the best option.

mind mentioning if filter AND oil change is what's recommended around the 500 miles mark ? What oil do you use and how are your numbers ? other than that, would you agree 0w20 oil is probably my best bet for CT ( West Hartford ) year round since it gets a bit colder?

 

[Ktrw]

mind mentioning if filter AND oil change is what's recommended around the 500 miles mark ? What oil do you use and how are your numbers ? other than that, would you agree 0w20 oil is probably my best bet for CT ( West Hartford ) year round since it gets a bit colder?

Yeah, I think it's a great idea to change your oil around 500-1000 miles to get a bulk of the break-in material out. 0W-20 is fine for these engines, especially with the stock configuration. I run 5W-30 as well and found both to be sufficient, but I prefer to run the slightly thicker oil for hydrodynamic wedge reasons. I got some great wear results with PUP 5W-30 (4ish ppm wear metals per 1,000 miles), so I will stick with that until I can try Honda Formula R, since that is extremely interesting to me. You may want to consider 5W-20 as well if the temperature range works for your local climate, because it should be more shear stable than 0W-20 while not being substantially thicker.

I think you could choose from a variety of filters and be fine. Tons of people and shops swear by the Honda OEM filter, and I don't think there's really anything wrong with it other than the build quality internally leaves some to be desired, imo. I forgot initially, but I edited my previous comment to include that I run Purolator filters (PBL14610/PL14610).

 

[zumbooruk]

I have been following this thread closely, Currently live in CT, seems like my best bet is to stick 0-20 oil. Currently about 500 miles on the odometer, so first oil change is due, What oil/filter you recommend most for the FL5, based on actual science backed feedback?

I would not change factory oil at 500, wait at least to 1,000 (I waited to 3,000)

best commonly/cheaply available: Pennzoil Platinum Plus (I use 5w-30)
best probably Amsoil Signature

Fram ultra synthetic used to be best filter by far (smallest particles, best flow), but company went under, factories closed (includes Amsoil, K&N and other private labels)

current best filter for smallest particles and best flow is Purolator One (not Boss, which is designed for high mileage)

but most important is to keep oil change interval to 5,000 miles

for a filter look for under 20 microns at 90+ efficiency, good flow, low psi drop, high bypass.

 

[eap35]

I would not change factory oil at 500, wait at least to 1,000 (I waited to 3,000)

best commonly/cheaply available: Pennzoil Platinum Plus (I use 5w-30)
best probably Amsoil Signature

Fram ultra synthetic used to be best filter by far (smallest particles, best flow), but company went under, factories closed (includes Amsoil, K&N and other private labels)

current best filter for smallest particles and best flow is Purolator One (not Boss, which is designed for high mileage)

but most important is to keep oil change interval to 5,000 miles

for a filter look for under 20 microns at 90+ efficiency, good flow, low psi drop, high bypass.

Can you dive into why you’d prefer oil change at 1000 over 500?

I will be doing lot of short trips (driving the car for 5mn at a time sometimes 10mn ); was told that I probably should stick to at most 2500-3000 miles oil changes!

Anyone can comment on this as well as how you “warm up” your fl5 and most importantly cool it down?

I love this thread as it focuses on data/science

 

[johnloov]

Agreed. What the data proves is the first 10,000 miles you are flushing out wear metals. No matter which API sq/sp engine oil you use, 0w-20 or 5w-30. Change it more frequently. First 1000-3000 miles then ( there is a lot of moly added in for break in from factory ) - Change it every 2-3k or 2-4 track days. All engine oils degrade after 2000 miles according to top experts, engine builders, and oil analysis labs. Getting rid of contaminants is #1.

 

[eap35]

Agreed. What the data proves is the first 10,000 miles you are flushing out wear metals. No matter which API sq/sp engine oil you use, 0w-20 or 5w-30. Change it more frequently. First 1000-3000 miles then ( there is a lot of moly added in for break in from factory ) - Change it every 2-3k or 2-4 track days. All engine oils degrade after 2000 miles according to top experts, engine builders, and oil analysis labs. Getting rid of contaminants is #1.

Just dmed. We worry about contamination , now what are best practices about warming up/cooling down the k20c1? What’s the minimum oil/engine temp that shows on the logR before driving hard ?

 

[johnloov]

Just dmed. We worry about contamination , now what are best practices about warming up/cooling down the k20c1? What’s the minimum oil/engine temp that shows on the logR before driving hard ?

I always wait 10-15 min before woT and right after a track session, I always do a cool down lap, my heater is always on at max heat, recirculate, fan off ( that keeps stock car from overheating - makes a 10-15F difference, I drive straight to a gas station that’s 10 min away allowing entire car brakes and engine temps get water temps down to 190F and then I shut it down and fill it up. Also if you’re just driving in a spirited manner, lay off the boost at least 5 min before coming home so turbo has time to cool.

That’s my regiment so far. I see a lot of people come hot off track and shut their cars down and lift their hoods up - I cringe for their turbo and engine.

This is roughly the heat water temp difference between running no heater on max on stock FL5 on track and 0w/20 pennzoil ultra platinum

Here is exact same position on track with heater on max, no fan vs. interior temp on cold no fan. The heat exchanger helps keep temps down by about 15 degrees.

 

[AspecR]

Just dmed. We worry about contamination , now what are best practices about warming up/cooling down the k20c1? What’s the minimum oil/engine temp that shows on the logR before driving hard ?

try to keep it under 3k rpms for the first 10 mins, no full boost/redline until oil temps are at least 180 deg.

 

[jtlctr]

try to keep it under 3k rpms for the first 10 mins, no full boost/redline until oil temps are at least 180 deg.

Agreed, I wait until the oil is 180+ ‘Murcan degrees before the hooning commences.

 

[joshinthecity]

I go one step further.

Warm up stage 1: Gentle driving and no real boost until 80c water temp
Warm up stage 2: Moderate driving until the oil temp shows higher than the water temp (an additional 5 mins or so) Then it's hammer time.

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