🔴💊 Engine Oil Red Pill Thread: Only Post If You Have UOA - Official Honda Civic Type R K20C1 Engine Oil Analysis

[johnloov]

Any thoughts on Mugeen recommending Motul 0W-40, the brand is irrelevant mostly interested in why they chose grade more than anything else.

Which Motul version? Mugen also has its own formulation.

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[AspecR]

Which Motul version? Mugen also has its own formulation.

MS-P 0W-40 currently only available in Japan I believe. The IG post is on the previous page

 

[johnloov]

No idea ) Would be great for someone to test it - My understanding from that video is - the two highest grades of Motul motor oil is the Power 8100 ester and v300 double ester race oil - Mugen oil could be marketing - mineral oil based

 

[cryptolime]

Watch out with redline 5w-30 - it's not formulated to API SP specs - no LSPI protection for direct injection - only redline 0w-20 ( thickest 0W20 available at 9cst at 100c ) and 0w-30 is API SP formulated - check the stats - I talked to redline - they didn't have an API SP spec 5w-30 yet.

I've very interested in the 0w20 redline, as it's at the highest CST for a 0W-20 and it theoretically should run cooler with the PAO Ester blend, and it last longer vs a pure race oil like Motul 300V - stays in grade way better. Motul Power 8100 maybe compatible to the Redline. It was proven to stay in grade longer and had very good results from the lab reports.

awesome. didn't even know Redline had API approval. going to try their 0w20 next oil change.

edit: actually looks it's just a recommended replacement, not actual approval...too much ZDDP i guess

 

[AspecR]

awesome. didn't even know Redline had API approval. going to try their 0w20 next oil change.

My car currently has Honda Ultimate 0W-20 in it which I plan to do an oil analysis on,switching to 5W-30 since my car has an upgraded turbo and Redline comes highly recommended by a few daily driven K20Cs that make more power with bigger turbos than my car. I'll definitely an analysis on it as well its's time to swap it out.

 

[Rhorn]

I know all oils sheer down eventually, just seems a bit premature on the FL5 to me. This could just be paranoia but for peace of mind that's why I'm switching to Redline 5w-30 at my next oil change.

I was just wondering why Mugen would recommend 0W-40 which is relatively obscure for the K20C as opposed to 5W-30 which comes up the most in conversation.

I dont know about the Motul oil formulation but 0W-40 isnt really obscure for this engine. The ITS Race Car uses 0W40. Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 is a low grade 0W-40 that sheers into 5W-30 still conferring protection and its commonly used with alot of people who have turbo DI I4s for track use. Porsche recommends using the same oil for their new Models. They have an extremely similar formulation to the ESP 0W-40 and its called Mobil 1 C40 GT (Older Porsche models like the 981 GT4 is recommended to use the M1 ESP 0W-40). There is a whole wide variety of 40 weight oils on the market that is for a bunch of different applications. Some will have higher HTHS (starting viscosity number) than others. Its probably overkill to have a HTHS in the 0W40 range for street since you won't be seeing the same oil temps as you do on the track so you wont really need that extra viscosity buffer.

Why Mugen is recommending that specific Motul oil? Honestly I don't know. Unless we can see a virgin UOA or a regular UOA its anyone guess and it could just be simply that Mugen is sponsored by Motul. Mobil 1 ESP is proven to be one of the best oils on the market for our engines because of its specific formulation for small displacement modern DI eco engines with particulate filters. The formula prevents fuel dilution and carbon buildup.


I haven’t had the time or money to be going to the track lately since I have been busy with trying to get into graduate school. I had a good amount of data for mileage and track days with my oil (was using Amsoil SS 5W-30) and when I sent them in for UOAs it was lost in the mail. I have been using Mobile 1 ESP 5W30 for now, I need to change the oil again but I dont think the data will show anything meaningful since its just street miles. I want to do testing on the 5W30 and 0W40 and see what the UOAs show after doing track days. Hopefully later in the fall I will have the time once these interviews ease up.

 

[johnloov]

awesome. didn't even know Redline had API approval. going to try their 0w20 next oil change.

edit: actually looks it's just a recommended replacement, not actual approval...too much ZDDP i guess

It's not an approval, but it matches or exceeds the specs listed according to Redline

Excited to see more data - let's go!

 

[AspecR]

I dont know about the Motul oil formulation but 0W-40 isnt really obscure for this engine. The ITS Race Car uses 0W40. Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 is a low grade 0W-40 that sheers into 5W-30 still conferring protection and its commonly used with alot of people who have turbo DI I4s for track use. Porsche recommends using the same oil for their new Models. They have an extremely similar formulation to the ESP 0W-40 and its called Mobil 1 C40 GT (Older Porsche models like the 981 GT4 is recommended to use the M1 ESP 0W-40). There is a whole wide variety of 40 weight oils on the market that is for a bunch of different applications. Some will have higher HTHS (starting viscosity number) than others. Its probably overkill to have a HTHS in the 0W40 range for street since you won't be seeing the same oil temps as you do on the track so you wont really need that extra viscosity buffer.

Why Mugen is recommending that specific Motul oil? Honestly I don't know. Unless we can see a virgin UOA or a regular UOA its anyone guess and it could just be simply that Mugen is sponsored by Motul. Mobil 1 ESP is proven to be one of the best oils on the market for our engines because of its specific formulation for small displacement modern DI eco engines with particulate filters. The formula prevents fuel dilution and carbon buildup.


I haven’t had the time or money to be going to the track lately since I have been busy with trying to get into graduate school. I had a good amount of data for mileage and track days with my oil (was using Amsoil SS 5W-30) and when I sent them in for UOAs it was lost in the mail. I have been using Mobile 1 ESP 5W30 for now, I need to change the oil again but I dont think the data will show anything meaningful since its just street miles. I want to do testing on the 5W30 and 0W40 and see what the UOAs show after doing track days. Hopefully later in the fall I will have the time once these interviews ease up.

Definitely didn't know the race cars used 0W-40, then again I didn't do any research on what they were running in the first place. I've always seen it was recommended mostly for cars of the German variety though. I was referring to mostly how when the oil discussion comes up almost no one mentions 0W-40 for Hondas, its generally either 0W-20, 0W-30 and 5W-30 that everyone argues about.

They have a partnership with Motul which I'm sure plays a part in their recommendation. Why are they recommending that specific model of oil as opposed to any other 0W-40 offered by Motul is unknown to me. I'm wondering how much testing on that weight and model of Motul did they do to come that conclusion. Mugen would have greater access and resources to test than anyone on this forum. I trust Mugen more than relatively annecdotal information found on the net. Think I'm gonna try it after i get through the batches of 5W-30 that I currently have.

 

[Rhorn]

Definitely didn't know the race cars used 0W-40, then again I didn't do any research on what they were running in the first place. I've always seen it was recommended mostly for cars of the German variety though. I was referring to mostly how when the oil discussion comes up almost no one mentions 0W-40 for Hondas, its generally either 0W-20, 0W-30 and 5W-30 that everyone argues about.



They have a partnership with Motul which I'm sure plays a part in their recommendation. Why are they recommending that specific model of oil as opposed to any other 0W-40 offered by Motul is unknown to me. I'm wondering how much testing on that weight and model of Motul did they do to come that conclusion. Mugen would have greater access and resources to test than anyone on this forum. I trust Mugen more than relatively annecdotal information found on the net. Think I'm gonna try it after i get through the batches of 5W-30 that I currently have.

Because of the strict emissions in Europe, they are faster on the ball game when it comes to specific recommendations for their cars vs here in the US. I think in the EU manual for the Golf R it recommends a 40 weight oil.



My guess is that before oil companies started coming out with all of these eco oils to meet the new specs, most 40 weight was probably too think or not formulated correctly. I know that the Amsoil SS 5W-40 oil is not good for our engines due to its high calcium content.



Also I think people tend to blindly look at the oil weight and not consider the specific formulation which could why you see discussions around only 0W20/5W30, theres probably more oils on the market in those weights thats acceptable than there are 0W40/5W40. The other factor is cost, idk about other 40 weight oil but M1 ESP 0W40 is more expensive than the lower weights. From what I've read about M1 ESP 5W30 is that its a really thick 5W30 oil and is borderline 40 weight. So you can use a thick 5W-30 and would probably be fine, but there are some specific 40 weights that can be better. The Motul might be one of them.



If its a new oil then it could just be done for advertising, even if the oil is not the "best" its not likely going to cause any damage or blow up your engine. It cant hurt to call Motul or Mugen and ask why or try out the oil yourself and get a VOA/UOA. Outside of making a post on Bob the Oil Guy or asking an industry expert I doubt you'd get a satisfactory answer. Im not familiar with all of the Motul oils, I got confused when I was looking and went with something else

 

[johnloov]

Interesting he's using Valvoline Restore and Protect 0W-20 - modified Type R. "This oil does a kill job of protecting the engine.."

Anyone have any oil analysis on this.

 

[AspecR]

Interesting he's using Valvoline Restore and Protect 0W-20 - modified Type R. "This oil does a kill job of protecting the engine.."

Anyone have any oil analysis on this.

They’re sponsored by Valvoline so I wouldn’t expect anything else. Valvoline does do well in oil tests though.

 

[johnloov]

They’re sponsored by Valvoline so I wouldn’t expect anything else. Valvoline does do well in oil tests though.

Ah ha excellent observation.

Very curious why Restore and Protect is better than Valvoline Advanced Ultra Maxlife which has supposedly Esters and the best protection?

The high mileage version has more Ester.
"Pennzoil has better form of Moly - Infinium Moly - which is the best form of Moly you can use right now.." Valvoline uses M0S2 formula, just like LiquidMoly, and everyone else... "

 

[AspecR]

Ah ha excellent observation.

Very curious why Restore and Protect is better than Valvoline Advanced Ultra Maxlife which has supposedly Esters and the best protection?

The high mileage version has more Ester.
"Pennzoil has better form of Moly - Infinium Moly - which is the best form of Moly you can use right now.." Valvoline uses M0S2 formula, just like LiquidMoly, and everyone else... "

I think they're using that oil mainly because of the sponsorship deal they have, they only use Restore and Protect for the street cars or VR-1 in the race cars

 

[cryptolime]

Ah ha excellent observation.

Very curious why Restore and Protect is better than Valvoline Advanced Ultra Maxlife which has supposedly Esters and the best protection?

The high mileage version has more Ester.
"Pennzoil has better form of Moly - Infinium Moly - which is the best form of Moly you can use right now.." Valvoline uses M0S2 formula, just like LiquidMoly, and everyone else... "

ugh. why do they recommend the high mileage to only high mileage engines if it's such a good oil?

 

[Xmetal]

ugh. why do they recommend the high mileage to only high mileage engines if it's such a good oil?

Because the high mileage oils usually have conditioner for rubber that somewhat swell up rubber seals/orings to prevent minor leaks.

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