Initial impressions: FL5 vs. GR Yaris vs. ND2 Miata

[savagegeese]

What do you think the chances are that the Integra Type S dampers can be installed on the Type R along with ADS module? The cars are so similar I think this could be an alternative.

How long does it take for Öhlins to develop kits like this?

(Integra)The dampers will be a direct fit. The ADS should also be the same.
It would take a month based on my conversations (Ohlins)

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[s2kdriver80]

I wonder if you could get away with just replacing the ADS. Is it possible the CTR and ITS dampers are the same? I upgraded my base FK8 with the ADS from the LE without touching the dampers, since they were identical.

 

[CTR]

(Integra)The dampers will be a direct fit. The ADS should also be the same.
It would take a month based on my conversations (Ohlins)

Maybe if you get to meet some of the engineers for the media launch of the ITS you can ask for us.

It would be really cool if we could get a resurgence of cross-compatible parts like the golden age of Honda back in the 90's. I'm also curious how many Si / Integra parts are interchangeable.

 

[randomFL5guy]

I wonder if ITS spring rates will be the same? People seemed to have no issues with FK8 ride quality and the FL5 just carried over the spring rates, so maybe Acura could use the same spring rates and just soften the damping closer to the FK8?

 

[VarmintCong]

I know this has already been mentioned, but the Fk8 has a suspension that is not as stiff in Sport mode and even softer in comfort, yet appears to have 99% of the handling benefits of the FL5 with better steering feel as noted by some reviewers.

Maybe honda needed to make the car stiffer, being slightly heavier and larger to get those few seconds ahead of the fk8. If it was just as comfortable but posted about the same times, numbers lovers would scoff?

Still trying to figure out why they needed to make it stiffer when everyone praised the ride on the fk8. Even @savagegeese 's explanation that they made it stiffer as a sort of last hurrah to be the best-performing ICE Type R on the way out, doesn't make sense to me. It's a few seconds faster around the track, but it's worse to drive every day? Seems like a step backward.

i think this could be part of their returning the Type R to the Japan fold, Japanese roads are incredibly smooth so they probably felt it the FK8 could be stiffened up a little.

 

[lrk322]

i think this could be part of their returning the Type R to the Japan fold, Japanese roads are incredibly smooth so they probably felt it the FK8 could be stiffened up a little.

I know that savagegeese and others have valid points that Honda wanted to make the CTR the more hardcore version and the Integra S the softer one. It seems like a loss because the fk8 split the two, and had the best of both worlds. Likely the integra S will be heavier and too soft (hopefully not). I'm sure it was a deliberate choice by Honda, just not one that suits my preferences. I do wonder how stiff it is compared to the 2018 Focus RS after they gave it a slightly softer suspension.

 

[CTR]

FK8 did not split the two. Comfort mode was nearly useless from what I've heard from mulitple owners. A lot only used it on the highway. It was too floaty and did not match the rest of the car in the corners.

Many journalists complained about the RS being too stiff back then. There is no way that the FL5 ride is harsher than the RS when it is in Comfort mode.

 

[kwaping]

Found this thread via a Google search and registered just to thank the OP for the great comparison. They really nailed the description of my ND2! I imagine the other reviews were just as accurate and balanced.

Will there be a video coming out of this? Seems like great YT content.

 

[M!!!]

Thanks, I can't be bothered to do youtube lol.

The ND2 is really fantastic in its own right and is definitely much, much more than the sum of its humble parts

 

[keller]

I suspect we’ll see a softer version in a couple years like the S2000.

That's interesting. The facelift fk8 has a softer comfort mode than 17-19 MYs.

From what I understand Comfort mode in the FK8 was too floaty and you couldn’t actually corner aggressively. How many FK8 owners really drove in Comfort when everything else was worse?

The real problem of comfort mode in the fk8 is the light steering. In bumpy tracks you actually want a softer suspension. The fk8 record run in nürburgring was in comfort mode btw.

 

[M!!!]

I'm looking into downsizing to 18s in the future with as near stock offset as I can find, to try to improve the ride comfort

 

[CastorX]

Took out these three beauties back-to-back today and man they are all amazing. My quick impressions on how they compare against each other:

FL5:
+ Just feels supremely polished overall in ways big and small -- the engine, steering, clutch, brakes, shifter... but just as notably, things like solid door slams, solid-feeling knobs and switches and control stalks. There is an overall smoothness to everything that is absent in the Yaris and to a lesser extent, the Miata
+ Nicest interior by far, nicest seats, hands-down feels the most special inside
+ The driving position is superb and easily the best of the three
+ Engine is excellent, feels very linear from bottom rpm up to redline. Feels like a really strong normally aspirated engine even
+ Steering is the best in a trio of cars with excellent steering; the most direct, the most natural feeling, most communicative, and the alcantara wheel feels nicest in hand
+ Strong brakes, but the stoppers on the Yaris feel slightly more powerful
+ Noticeably more comfortable ride than the Yaris in Comfort mode but the Miata is a limousine in comparison
+ Lots of cubbyholes for phones and sunglasses and miscellany
+ Best infotainment system and best screen and best sound system quality
- Feels quite big and wide on the road compared to the other two. But it doesn't really feel too heavy on the road
- Electronic parking brake feels out of place. The other two have proper handbrake levers

GR Yaris:
+ Absurdly potent engine, feels more gutless down low than the FL5 but holy cow the midrange from 3000 rpm on is very strong. This is the one with VTEC, yo! Subjectively, this feels strongest on the road.
+ Brakes feel strongest, maybe because the car weighs less than the FL5.
+ Feels small and very nimble on the road, it really shines at high speeds
- The seats are waaaay up high and feel like they should be 6 inches lower or something. Especially obvious coming from the FL5 and Miata. The center screen blocks the view out the windshield too
- The steering is the least remarkable of the three for me, but really it's still quite excellent
- The interior is econo-car crappy
- The airconditioning is weak
- The shifter is very good but compared to the FL5 and Miata, it feels clunky and slightly longer in throw and spacing. A distant third here, but we are comparing against two of the very best shifters in the world
- The styling is purposeful but people who don't know what it is think it's some cheap econo-hatchback haha
- Whereas the FL5 and the Miata feel quite special even at low speeds (and even stopped!), the GR Yaris feels almost ordinary at low speeds and really needs to be driven hard and fast for it to really come into its own

ND2 Miata:
+ Feels soooo light. And not just because it is, but also because all the controls feel light as well (the steering, the clutch, the shifter) and all feel well-matched to each other. The engine feels zingy and free-revving. It pivots around your butt. It is completely outgunned by the other two, but to be honest, I find it more fun to drive than the GR Yaris and maybe even the FL5 around town and outside of a race track.
+ You can drive this at 5/10ths or 6/10ths or 7/10ths and think each time that it's such a nice, fun car. In comparison, the FL5 and Yaris feel much more serious, with heavier weight on all the primary controls. Where they feel like bolt-action rifles, the Miata feels like a Nerf gun. And we all know that a Nerf gun is more fun than a bolt-action rifle!
+ Excellent shifter, I can't decide which between this and the FL5 has the better shifter. The biggest difference is the weight, the FL5's is heavy and substantial, the Miata's is light and snick-snick
+ Nicest engine sound for me
+ You can drive it harder on public roads without going to scary speeds
+ Limousine ride comfort compared to the other two
+ Nice steering and steering feel, though it seems to lack self-centering compared to the other two
+ Nicest styling, after all it's a two door roadster
- Completely outclassed power-wise and the stock suspension will be too soft for serious driving or track driving
- In comparison to the other two, the brakes feel soft and weak
- Completely outclassed in the tire department
- Ludicrously tight cabin and there is no space to put your everyday stuff in
- Can feel almost toylike compared to the other two; a Nerf gun is fun but it's a plastic toy compared to a real gun

I never drove an fl5 nor a Gr, but I have a civic 10th gen sport+ EU and I bought an 2020 ND2 RF as second car. I completely agree with you on the nd2 front.
I’m seriously thinking about buying better brake pads, maybe later a suspenstion upgrade. The oem brakes are a joke even compared to my non Type-r civic. Actually I think driving wise the brakes are the biggest weakness of the ND. I heared that even the Brembo package doesnt make a huge difference. My civic has superior brakes compared to the mx5. However i have to say after driving many passanger cars that the civic sport+ has above average brakes (compared to cars here in the EU at least).
But I really like that it’s rwd, beautiful, shifter is great, it’s powerful enough to have fun and the mx5 has a light flywheel. It’s quite fun to get around town too actually. Oh, and build quality… sooooo much better than my swindon made 10th gen. But i assume the jap made 11th gen civics are just as good.

 

[M!!!]

I never drove an fl5 nor a Gr, but I have a civic 10th gen sport+ EU and I bought an 2020 ND2 RF as second car. I completely agree with you on the nd2 front.
I’m seriously thinking about buying better brake pads, maybe later a suspenstion upgrade. The oem brakes are a joke even compared to my non Type-r civic. Actually I think driving wise the brakes are the biggest weakness of the ND. I heared that even the Brembo package doesnt make a huge difference. My civic has superior brakes compared to the mx5. However i have to say after driving many passanger cars that the civic sport+ has above average brakes (compared to cars here in the EU at least).
But I really like that it’s rwd, beautiful, shifter is great, it’s powerful enough to have fun and the mx5 has a light flywheel. It’s quite fun to get around town too actually. Oh, and build quality… sooooo much better than my swindon made 10th gen. But i assume the jap made 11th gen civics are just as good.

The marvelous thing about a Miata is everything is easily upgraded through the aftermarket!

 

[CastorX]

The marvelous thing about a Miata is everything is easily upgraded through the aftermarket!

Yes. I will start with new brake pads then we will see. Sadly here in the EU tuning doesnt go as easily as in the US for example. It’s possible, but almost everything modification costs more and mist be registered officially. But brakes pads should not be a problem.

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