Making this car more raw?

[ctechauto]

The PRL RMM is about 10% stiffer but 100% more noisey and rattly

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[T41WN.1]

The PRL RMM is about 10% stiffer but 100% more noisey and rattly

Thank god I stumbled on this thread.

Was gonna cop myself a PRL RMM but hearing the honesty from other owners who have installed it, I think I'd rather save myself a couple hundred bucks and use it on petrol

 

[Blindeye_03]

the OEM mount is probably stiff enough. The Si one has a noticeable amount of slop.

I am genuinely curious if the OEM FL5 mount is stiffer than the one in the FK8.

I may end up finding whatever is slightly stiffer than the PRL RMM and replacing it at some point. I dont mind some NVH - but I dont feel like I am getting any NVH from it lol.

 

[AspecR]

I am genuinely curious if the OEM FL5 mount is stiffer than the one in the FK8.

I may end up finding whatever is slightly stiffer than the PRL RMM and replacing it at some point. I dont mind some NVH - but I dont feel like I am getting any NVH from it lol.

Don't waste your time with the stock mounts

 

[jtlctr]

I imagine the stiffer mount comes more into play during wheel spin. Now that I have a tune, I may swap the stock mount back in and see how bad the wheel hop is.

 

[atlcivic]

I definitely felt the engine rubber banding between shifts with the stock mount and couldn’t stand that feeling. I have the wunderladen rmm now and it definitely fixed most of it. I must be old though bc I do feel the slight chatter and resonance at idle and low rpms and am now getting annoyed with it, even though it is subtle. That being said, I may go back and try the stock mount again, or throw more money into the car by installing rigid collars and performance dampers, and some sound deadening in the trunk to see if that resolves it.

 

[Shankmeyster]

Sounds like you need a custom tune to get power delivery where you want it to be.

 

[lilDumpsterRat]

I think the hype train does things to people's imaginations for these cars where they really do think they're going to step into a 4 door Elise.

As someone who came into this car from a history of past "high end sports cars", I'll tell anyone reading this right now what this car is not- it's not a good primary choice for a "fun car". If 4 doors and a manual transmission were not hard requirements, I would not be driving this car... and as soon as the funds free up I'll be buying another Porsche/Emira/McLaren/etc.

So when I see folks come in here with a stable full of other fun cars expecting to add to the list of cars they want to tear through the mountains with, I know I'm most likely looking at a transient member of these forums.

If the expectation shifts to a "do-it-all" car that can be a kid/dog taxi and grocery getter as well as it can be a genuine sports car, now you're in this car's sweet spot. It's not the best at either.

Best way I can explain my individual situation without breaking into full dissertation-mode- I needed something like this because I just couldn't justify having both a 911 AND an S4 like I did at one point... I tried with an RS5 and it didn't work. It does with my DE5... but also I do still occasionally get in it and think things like "wouldn't it be nice if I could put the top down and hear a glorious flat 6". It is "special" for what it is, but it doesn't truly compare to the pantheon of high end sports cars- on really any level if we're getting serious. If you have any sort of expectations beyond that you will almost surely be disappointed.

Hope that helps someone in the future avoid spending all the time looking for a car with no ADM just to turn around and list it for sale in 2 weeks...

everything is subjective when we're talking about feelings, but I dont agree that it cant compare to high end cars. To me, It does in the sense that it is a pleasure to drive, more so than some exotics. my comparisons are limited, but to me the feeling is much better than a Huracan anywhere, the huracan is an aboslutely brutish beast of a car, glorious sounds, but actual fun through corners and mountains? type R feels better, more honest, more connected to you, more controllable in a concentrated way that transcends the abysmal engine and exhaust note of the type r. That says a lot, to enjoy driving a car so much that even if it sounds sorta ass you still enjoy it more. I dont think the fl5 sounds good at all, yet, everytime id get out of the huracan for a week id always chuckle about how i wanted to get back in my type r because it was just more fun everywhere, on the road putting around, and in spirited driving.

even a 991 GT3, to me the gold standard. I wouldnt say the type R feels better, but I wouldnt say it feels worse at all in any way, just different. still very fun to drive. Honestly when i got back into the type R after a bunch of laps in the GT3, I was blown away that the type R was still almost as much fun, and in some ways more fun, because it has a certain scapel like sharpness to its handling that is uniquely japanese.

So i think it does hold up against cars that cost 3X what it does, not so much in raw numbers on paper, but in the way it feels. I think you need to take your de5 and push it harder, the way it feels above 90 mph pushing into corners is very unique, and puts it up there satisfaction wise with the big boys imo.

 

[Unity Performance]

If the PRL RMM hasn’t lived up to expectations on the 2.0T, give Wunderladen Street or COBB a try. I say 2.0T specifically because we’ve had the PRL unit for over a year on our 1.5T FL1, and it’s a great improvement.

On my FK8 prior to my FL5, switching from PRL after 6 months to Wunderladen Street made an immediate difference - reduced NVH and better performance at the same time. I perfected the same launch that I couldn’t get on the car before with the PRL RMM, and the 1-2 shift felt way more controlled.

As soon as I got the FL5 new in August I could feel the slop with the stock RMM - no need to launch the car to verify that, even on/off throttle in day to day driving conditions you can feel the lurch/jerk. Switched up to Wunderladen Street since it was that good in the FK8, and immediately the jerking is gone. There’s minimal NVH. I’m also going to try COBB next and see how they compares to Wunderladen.

 

[optronix]

everything is subjective when we're talking about feelings, but I dont agree that it cant compare to high end cars. To me, It does in the sense that it is a pleasure to drive, more so than some exotics. my comparisons are limited, but to me the feeling is much better than a Huracan anywhere, the huracan is an aboslutely brutish beast of a car, glorious sounds, but actual fun through corners and mountains? type R feels better, more honest, more connected to you, more controllable in a concentrated way that transcends the abysmal engine and exhaust note of the type r. That says a lot, to enjoy driving a car so much that even if it sounds sorta ass you still enjoy it more. I dont think the fl5 sounds good at all, yet, everytime id get out of the huracan for a week id always chuckle about how i wanted to get back in my type r because it was just more fun everywhere, on the road putting around, and in spirited driving.

even a 991 GT3, to me the gold standard. I wouldnt say the type R feels better, but I wouldnt say it feels worse at all in any way, just different. still very fun to drive. Honestly when i got back into the type R after a bunch of laps in the GT3, I was blown away that the type R was still almost as much fun, and in some ways more fun, because it has a certain scapel like sharpness to its handling that is uniquely japanese.

So i think it does hold up against cars that cost 3X what it does, not so much in raw numbers on paper, but in the way it feels. I think you need to take your de5 and push it harder, the way it feels above 90 mph pushing into corners is very unique, and puts it up there satisfaction wise with the big boys imo.

I'm not sure I can reconcile completely with your take. To me - and I don't think it's unreasonable to assume most others - there's absolutely no question, from a driving experience perspective, a Huracan or GT3 delivers so much more in every way that matters than a Civic Type R. Sound, power, and yes chassis as well. And it's clear in the cost difference. So let's just agree to disagree there.

But where things get interesting and I can sort of see a bit where you're coming from... driving a high end sports car - or even more so a true exotic like a Huracan - on the street introduces other elements that for some people (myself included) can actually lower the quality of the overall experience. First, there's expectations. It's easy to get locked in a mindset that because the car is so expensive and "special", it should be this mystifying experience but ultimately boils down to disappointment because there's only so much you can do to change the experience of having a steering wheel and pedals for input. I think that might be what you're running into, at least that's the only thing that makes sense to me. It's not quite the same but I went through something similar when I drove an M2 CS- I was expecting this insane driving machine and all I ended up getting out of it was it was just another BMW lol.

Then there's the fact that you're driving a $300k+ car that doesn't belong to you. Or even if it does- I'm not ashamed to admit that even with my $100k Porsches I felt a pretty strong sense of imposter syndrome. It digs into deep psychology that's going to vary widely from person to person, but for me suffice to say that I feel infinitely more "comfortable" driving my DE5 than I did with the Porsches. I feel like the car "fits" better. I've never been one for excessive attention and I got that in the Porsches and it didn't always feel comfortable. It also ties in to the fact that I was always subconsciously aware of how much the car cost and it actively held back in my enjoyment of it- for me this was amplified to where I was acutely aware of it on track. In that sense yes I can easily say I have more fun in this car than my 911 or Boxsters.

Another thought is you just prefer the dimensions of the FL5 to the wide track of a Lambo or even GT3. The FL5 is not a small car but it feels and drives smaller than those, and I can see how someone might prefer that especially in a canyon or tight back road situation.

But true capability and experience wise, no contest and I won't try to pretend there is.

 

[Jack90210]

I'm not sure I can reconcile completely with your take. To me - and I don't think it's unreasonable to assume most others - there's absolutely no question, from a driving experience perspective, a Huracan or GT3 delivers so much more in every way that matters than a Civic Type R. Sound, power, and yes chassis as well. And it's clear in the cost difference. So let's just agree to disagree there.

But where things get interesting and I can sort of see a bit where you're coming from... driving a high end sports car - or even more so a true exotic like a Huracan - on the street introduces other elements that for some people (myself included) can actually lower the quality of the overall experience. First, there's expectations. It's easy to get locked in a mindset that because the car is so expensive and "special", it should be this mystifying experience but ultimately boils down to disappointment because there's only so much you can do to change the experience of having a steering wheel and pedals for input. I think that might be what you're running into, at least that's the only thing that makes sense to me. It's not quite the same but I went through something similar when I drove an M2 CS- I was expecting this insane driving machine and all I ended up getting out of it was it was just another BMW lol.

Then there's the fact that you're driving a $300k+ car that doesn't belong to you. Or even if it does- I'm not ashamed to admit that even with my $100k Porsches I felt a pretty strong sense of imposter syndrome. It digs into deep psychology that's going to vary widely from person to person, but for me suffice to say that I feel infinitely more "comfortable" driving my DE5 than I did with the Porsches. I feel like the car "fits" better. I've never been one for excessive attention and I got that in the Porsches and it didn't always feel comfortable. It also ties in to the fact that I was always subconsciously aware of how much the car cost and it actively held back in my enjoyment of it- for me this was amplified to where I was acutely aware of it on track. In that sense yes I can easily say I have more fun in this car than my 911 or Boxsters.

Another thought is you just prefer the dimensions of the FL5 to the wide track of a Lambo or even GT3. The FL5 is not a small car but it feels and drives smaller than those, and I can see how someone might prefer that especially in a canyon or tight back road situation.

But true capability and experience wise, no contest and I won't try to pretend there is.

I cross-shopped M2 when I bought my Type R, and this resonates. If the M2 had excellent steering and a great MT, I might have gone that way but I still would have wound up with something too precious and flashy. The FL5 ticked all the boxes for me.

Now back to working on making it more direct and "raw," ha.

 

[cryptolime]

If the PRL RMM hasn’t lived up to expectations on the 2.0T, give Wunderladen Street or COBB a try. I say 2.0T specifically because we’ve had the PRL unit for over a year on our 1.5T FL1, and it’s a great improvement.

On my FK8 prior to my FL5, switching from PRL after 6 months to Wunderladen Street made an immediate difference - reduced NVH and better performance at the same time. I perfected the same launch that I couldn’t get on the car before with the PRL RMM, and the 1-2 shift felt way more controlled.

As soon as I got the FL5 new in August I could feel the slop with the stock RMM - no need to launch the car to verify that, even on/off throttle in day to day driving conditions you can feel the lurch/jerk. Switched up to Wunderladen Street since it was that good in the FK8, and immediately the jerking is gone. There’s minimal NVH. I’m also going to try COBB next and see how they compares to Wunderladen.

interested to see how the Cobb compares to the Wunderladen. I don't see anything special about the Cobb except for the brand.

still haven't gotten around to installing my Wunderladen yet.

 

[Jack90210]

interested to see how the Cobb compares to the Wunderladen. I don't see anything special about the Cobb except for the brand.

still haven't gotten around to installing my Wunderladen yet.

Have you seen this post (and the linked blog post that has the comparo)?

FL5 Civic Type R Rear Motor Mount Guide: NVH, Fitment, and Options

 

[Sporky McGeuschky]

Have you seen this post (and the linked blog post that has the comparo)?

FL5 Civic Type R Rear Motor Mount Guide: NVH, Fitment, and Options

Funny.

I didn't start reading this thread until a few days ago...
AFTER I ordered my Spoon Transmission and Rear Engine Mount Kit from GoTuning in California.

https://spoonusa.com/spoon-engine-transmision-mount-set-civic-type-r-fl5

... sooo ...
There's that.

Thing is, I know that I'm probably the last person here who will even know the difference, but I went there anyway.

Whaaddya gonna do, ammiright?
Spoon claims that this kit should be about 25% stiffer than OEM stock.
Did I overpay, for more performance than that of which I will ever take advantage?
Probably. Yep.

"But, Muh Spoon, though!"

I guess I'll let y'all know after the kit is installed...
if I can even feel a difference.

Cheers.

 

[lilDumpsterRat]

I'm not sure I can reconcile completely with your take. To me - and I don't think it's unreasonable to assume most others - there's absolutely no question, from a driving experience perspective, a Huracan or GT3 delivers so much more in every way that matters than a Civic Type R. Sound, power, and yes chassis as well. And it's clear in the cost difference. So let's just agree to disagree there.

But where things get interesting and I can sort of see a bit where you're coming from... driving a high end sports car - or even more so a true exotic like a Huracan - on the street introduces other elements that for some people (myself included) can actually lower the quality of the overall experience. First, there's expectations. It's easy to get locked in a mindset that because the car is so expensive and "special", it should be this mystifying experience but ultimately boils down to disappointment because there's only so much you can do to change the experience of having a steering wheel and pedals for input. I think that might be what you're running into, at least that's the only thing that makes sense to me. It's not quite the same but I went through something similar when I drove an M2 CS- I was expecting this insane driving machine and all I ended up getting out of it was it was just another BMW lol.

Then there's the fact that you're driving a $300k+ car that doesn't belong to you. Or even if it does- I'm not ashamed to admit that even with my $100k Porsches I felt a pretty strong sense of imposter syndrome. It digs into deep psychology that's going to vary widely from person to person, but for me suffice to say that I feel infinitely more "comfortable" driving my DE5 than I did with the Porsches. I feel like the car "fits" better. I've never been one for excessive attention and I got that in the Porsches and it didn't always feel comfortable. It also ties in to the fact that I was always subconsciously aware of how much the car cost and it actively held back in my enjoyment of it- for me this was amplified to where I was acutely aware of it on track. In that sense yes I can easily say I have more fun in this car than my 911 or Boxsters.

Another thought is you just prefer the dimensions of the FL5 to the wide track of a Lambo or even GT3. The FL5 is not a small car but it feels and drives smaller than those, and I can see how someone might prefer that especially in a canyon or tight back road situation.

But true capability and experience wise, no contest and I won't try to pretend there is.

touche indeed, but no , i dont think it's these other psychological factors you mention, just follow me on this:

You blind fold yourself on an endless tarmac, and you just drive in any direction you want, any speed you want, turn this way and that. feeling wise, the type R feels better than the huracan. the steering feels disconnected and soulless in the huracan compared to the type r, there's something special about how the type R carries its weight in turns, the combination of how the chassis feels when weight transfers. the level of information you get coming back at you from the pedals, the steering wheel, the seat, i think it's magic, it's just right.

I dont think it's just a function of "delivers so much more in every way that matters ...... Sound, power, and yes chassis as well" that puts a car in that upper category of driver satisfaction. If that were the case., it would just be the most powerful, the most awesome engines, the fastest lap time...but there are outliers that defy this, the e30 M3 for example , people who have driven everything on earth still swear by the feel of that old car.

On paper theres no question, you are right, many cars deliver more on some sort of measurable scale in all those categories. Just the noise of that fierce v10 behind your head in the huracan is an immense joy.. but it's not just that, its how the entire car comes together as a creation and how that feels when you interface with it. every car talks back to you when you push them, they have character or lack of, it's sometimes subtle but definitely there with all the great cars.

if you really compare cars based on how they feel as a cohesive product sometimes the recipe for something truly satisfying doesn't need to be 'the most' anything in any category alone, but rather it is how it all comes together- like a peanut butter jelly sandwich. I get it, a truffle oiled imported ham , organic wheat etc sandwich tastes amazing, but it still cant take away the fact that the pbj hits the spot in the right moment better than anything else. That's the best i can try to articulate it, that the Type R gets it just right, in such a way that it is truly unique to such a degree that it's right up there driving satisfaction wise with some heavy hitters. ive seen this echoed by some real gear heads out there, including evo mag reviewers, who i think are the best out there.
I wont labor it past this point, but im trying to open your eyes here man, your DE5 is incredibly special, the damn thing was the car of the year for i forget, but some major magazine. the engineers for the type R were initimately involved in the overall design of the base FL5 chassis and structure, this is not just another tuned version of a base model, it is nearly perfect!

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