2023 Civic Type R FL5 Dyno #2 - Higher Octane and More Data (from Hondata)

[ayau]

The numbers are meaningless by itself.

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[Boostlag]

The numbers are meaningless by itself.

sure does because at those numbers the car should be significantly faster.

 

[Clark_Kent]

I've been on automotive web forums for over 20 years and threads about dyno charts and dynamometers in general always, without fail, cause swirl. The throughline is that the masses do not understand the intended purpose of a dynamometer and its output, the dyno chart or graph. In this context, it's a platform for testing, full stop. It's not for bragging rights, it won't indicate trap speeds or how quickly you can get around your favorite track, or how capable a vehicle is. I'm certain another 20 years from now the same silly questions and statements will persist on this topic. Doug and the folks at Hondata have been around for a long time and I commend them for not taking the bait on many of the replies to these types of threads.

 

[Hondata]

@Hondata, thanks for the info.

How different are the air fuel ratios between the factory wideband sensor ECU data and the tailpipe sniffer?

Have you guys tested a 3 gallons of E85 to bump up the octane? E85 is way more affordable than race gas and should be fine since the car runs in full time AF closed loop.

We tested with race gas to raise the octane to 93. Ethanol would be a great test as well but 93 is more obtainable in the world.

 

[Icehawk]

Those AFRs look ugly - would love to see this car tuned once it's cracked and see what just correcting the factory tune will do.

 

[ayau]

Those AFRs look ugly - would love to see this car tuned once it's cracked and see what just correcting the factory tune will do.

How so? Looking at just the AFR doesn’t tell us the full story. For example, need to see if it’s hitting its ignition targets or if timing is being pulled. I don’t believe it is though.

 

[Hondata]

Those AFRs look ugly - would love to see this car tuned once it's cracked and see what just correcting the factory tune will do.

This AFR is stock. Ask Honda for their reasons. AFR for DI is different from a port injected engine. You would not run this AFR on a port injected K20 turbo.

 

[POPNTEC]

I've been on automotive web forums for over 20 years and threads about dyno charts and dynamometers in general always, without fail, cause swirl. The throughline is that the masses do not understand the intended purpose of a dynamometer and its output, the dyno chart or graph. In this context, it's a platform for testing, full stop. It's not for bragging rights, it won't indicate trap speeds or how quickly you can get around your favorite track, or how capable a vehicle is. I'm certain another 20 years from now the same silly questions and statements will persist on this topic. Doug and the folks at Hondata have been around for a long time and I commend them for not taking the bait on many of the replies to these types of threads.

Everything you said is correct however some people like myself would like to know how much ”real power” is actually being put out by these cars.

 

[Clark_Kent]

Everything you said is correct however some people like myself would like to know how much ”real power” is actually being put out by these cars.

I generally understand but what does that mean and what will you do with that information? You just want to know? A DynoJet, MAHA, Dyno Dynamics, Mustang, DYNOmite will all output different results on the same car. In fact, the same type of car will output different results on the same dyno. Unless you're using a dyno for its intended purpose, testing and tuning, the numbers don't mean anything. They're abstract if viewed in a vacuum.

 

[POPNTEC]

I generally understand but what does that mean and what will you do with that information? You just want to know? A DynoJet, MAHA, Dyno Dynamics, Mustang, DYNOmite will all output different results on the same car. In fact, the same type of car will output different results on the same dyno. Unless you're using a dyno for its intended purpose, testing and tuning, the numbers don't mean anything. They're abstract if viewed in a vacuum.

Well for one I could accurately calculate my power to weight ratio which is a nice little performance tracker.

I get the whole arbitrary numbers thing when seeing if certain parts or tuning is measured vs stock blah blah blah.

But again I still want to know how much real world HP my car is putting down. I don’t really see the issue with having that information. Do you?

 

[ayau]

Probably too costly to develop a solution for that. It seems like even the factory numbers can be a bit subjective.

Also a huge drawback is peak number only tells a small part of the story. Need to see the entire torque curve. Also you have 100 other factors to consider, gear ratios, drivetrain loss, etc.

What you may want is not necessarily what the industry wants.

 

[Robert.C]

Well for one I could accurately calculate my power to weight ratio which is a nice little performance tracker.

I get the whole arbitrary numbers thing when seeing if certain parts or tuning is measured vs stock blah blah blah.

But again I still want to know how much real world HP my car is putting down. I don’t really see the issue with having that information. Do you?

The biggest potential downside of this line of thinking (focusing on HP, power-to-weight, etc.) is that it’s not necessarily that informative. For example, on paper the FL5 has 315hp. Well, that’s only true at a specific engine speed; the rest of the time (ie, most of the time) it’s making less. So does it really matter if the car makes 315 or 325? The torque curve and power band are really what matter. But even when looking at these, there’s no objectively “best” power band because every driver prefers a different driving experience.

My opinion? Just drive the car. If you pinpoint a specific failing in power delivery that you would like to rectify, use a dyno to test and tune. But focusing on numbers alone is kind of meaningless. Just my two cents.

 

[POPNTEC]

The biggest potential downside of this line of thinking (focusing on HP, power-to-weight, etc.) is that it’s not necessarily that informative. For example, on paper the FL5 has 315hp. Well, that’s only true at a specific engine speed; the rest of the time (ie, most of the time) it’s making less. So does it really matter if the car makes 315 or 325? The torque curve and power band are really what matter. But even when looking at these, there’s no objectively “best” power band because every driver prefers a different driving experience.

My opinion? Just drive the car. If you pinpoint a specific failing in power delivery that you would like to rectify, use a dyno to test and tune. But focusing on numbers alone is kind of meaningless. Just my two cents.

Fine but I need to over compensate somewhere…

 

[zeroptzero]

There is likely a difference between the dyno numbers and street performance between the two model years, as dyno's factor out gearing differences, weight differences, and wheel sizing.

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