2023 Civic Type R (FL5) U.S. Pricing: $42,895 MSRP

[mbaapk]

I don’t think I’m missing the point - I feel like everyone on this forum KNOWS the CTR will hold its value. The problem is that you are using a $50k USED CTR as an example - when in reality - due to interest rates going up, the new gen out (which I think most would agree will be the better car), trade in values going down and no more govt money to throw around - unless one is a complete idiot - that car doesn’t sell for close to that amount.

As far as niche vehicles - Honda is the only one to produce them - there are plenty of niche vehicles across all brands. And if we go into a recession - we will see price of vehicles go down even harder. The thing is - neither you nor I know for sure - we are just speculating - plain and simple so I guess we’ll see how values are after we get back to a ‘normal‘ society.

Potential future catastrophe aside, there are no real alternatives that hit the mark quite like the type R. Let’s see how it plays out. Dom will give you $50 if im not right.

Sponsored

 

[nezumi]

I just want to point out that a lot of people who are buying this at $70k+ will make up what they paid in Market Adjustment by making You Tube videos. I dont blame them for spending this much on the CTR. I've been waiting to purchase CTR since 2017 all because I didn't want to pay Market Adjustment. The only real choice is to wait for a lightly used one and pay $5k above MSRP. It's insane but that's the way it is. It's probably cheaper to buy an EK9 CTR and really be exclusive.

Honda could easily solve this by flooding the Market with CTR's, 5-10 per dealer? Not going to happen.

That's 120K Australian dollars and here I'm complaining about 70K Australian for a civic. That's ridiculous amount of cash for a Honda.

 

[itsovr9k]

This is a decent indicator of used car values per auction data. We have already seen a contraction of 10% YoY.

How far and when this retuns to the expected levels (linear fit) is anyone's guess, but personally I would not be surprised to see a 20%-30% drop (down to around 150) in normal car values. The FK8 will have protection, but it's also one of the more overheated for used car values. The new models and increasing interest rates will put downard pressure there. I could still see it taking years to return to previous norms though.

https://publish.manheim.com/en/services/consulting/used-vehicle-value-index.html

 

[VarmintCong]

Given the conversation, this article might be of interest:
Sympathy for the dealer

Relevant quotes:
"the average Toyota dealer in the Boston region in the best years made between $2 million and $2.2 million profit. [In 2021] the average net profit was $6 million." David Rosenberg, president of DSR Motor Group

"Leaner inventory, even under 20 days' supply, comes with some benefits. Many of our dealers have expressed that they don't want to return to the old way of doing business with inflated inventories that can lead to cycles of unhealthy discounting and incentives. As a manufacturer, we need to focus on building the right models given the limited supply. We will pursue a simpler, more disciplined approach, one where we minimize inefficient trim levels and focus on our most profitable and in-demand models." -American Honda's Chris Naughton

"dealers don't need to carry historical inventory levels to have a robust business. There is no reason for us or our dealers to go back." -Eric Cunningham, vice president, sales, service, and marketing, for Cadillac North America

"The current five-to-10-day vehicle supply is a bit thin, but 60 to 90 days was entirely too fat. My opinion is that a 30-day supply is the sweet spot," -Erwin Raphael, a regional director of operations for Amazon Transportation Services and former COO of Genesis

I’m sure dealers realized they make more selling one car for $7k profit than 5 cars for $1000 profit.

But this sucks for car manufacturers and car buyers, so it won’t last.

 

[VarmintCong]

I hope you are right man - I just feel like ‘enthusiast cars’ will still garner an ADM of some sort. I think there are enough people that would be more than willing to pay $2.5k over MSRP to get their hands on a FL5 at this point. I feel the normal car market will definitely adjust and I’m hoping that will affect some of the fun used cars out there (looking at you FK8 CTR) but I feel like the new ones such as the FL5 and the GRC will garner above MSRP (maybe not as much but still).

Most likely things will simply return to the pre 2020 state. Cars like this will go above MSRP their first year and premiums will drop as the initial hype fades and the buy at all cost buyers shoot their wads. I’d expect MSRP to be fairly common for the second model year, unless we’re back in crazy asset inflation mode already.

 

[CyberCTR]

Anyone hating on those who are paying whatever they want for the FL5 need to chill. They’re a small minority. Once they get their cars I can’t see these dealers having many fish biting for over 10k. You sound petty and jealous tbh.

Others are just speculating because that’s all we can do, no one knows where the market will be for this vehicle it the short term or next year, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Some people think that the price will maintain a 10k+ markup and others see signs that the car market is slowing down. Either way it’s all speculation. Nothing wrong with discussing it as it is important to the vehicles discussion.

If you have your car you shouldn’t care what anyone says about how much you paid for it. If you get upset about it looks like you may not be as comfortable paying what you did. Who cares, you have your car. Enjoy it.

Let people speculate and ignore the haters.

 

[Blindeye_03]

Most likely things will simply return to the pre 2020 state. Cars like this will go above MSRP their first year and premiums will drop as the initial hype fades and the buy at all cost buyers shoot their wads. I’d expect MSRP to be fairly common for the second model year, unless we’re back in crazy asset inflation mode already.

Plus its best to wait anyways to flesh out issues on a first MY car.. although with the motor being, for the most part, the same I am not sure if that really applies here.

 

[mbaapk]

Most likely things will simply return to the pre 2020 state. Cars like this will go above MSRP their first year and premiums will drop as the initial hype fades and the buy at all cost buyers shoot their wads. I’d expect MSRP to be fairly common for the second model year, unless we’re back in crazy asset inflation mode already.

Not likely when a lot of dealers are with 20+ deep wait lists.

 

[Doublestack00]

Not likely when a lot of dealers are with 20+ deep wait lists.

Ones that we know of. Also, there have been at least a half dozen dealers confirmed selling at MSRP.

 

[AspecR]

Ones that we know of. Also, there have been at least a half dozen dealers confirmed selling at MSRP.

There are a bunch of them selling at MSRP, but if you didn’t get on the list early or if you aren’t local you’re a lot less likely to get one in a timely manner.

 

[shihabp79]

I thought my local dealership was crazy to give me $36,000 for my '17 FK8 with light damage history on the Carfax (a poor stray pupper walked in front of me on an exit ramp) but with FL5 prices ($44k + ADM) being what they are, I can see that a used FK8 is a "bargain" in comparison even at close to $40k. I bought almost half my Porsche 718 Cayman S with the proceeds from the FK8 sale and it seems silly to me that folks are potentially paying more for their new fancy Civics than I did for a Porsche. I was going to buy an FL5 for a daily next year but now it's looking more likely that I'll be setting my sights elsewhere

 

[VarmintCong]

Not likely when a lot of dealers are with 20+ deep wait lists.

how much does it cost to be on a waitlist?

 

[Doublestack00]

how much does it cost to be on a waitlist?

Varies dealer by dealer.

 

[VarmintCong]

Plus its best to wait anyways to flesh out issues on a first MY car.. although with the motor being, for the most part, the same I am not sure if that really applies here.

My first year Sport hatch was a bit of a nightmare, so yeah, can't hurt especially if this is a car you'll keep forever, which I'm guessing it will be for me.

 

[Doublestack00]

My first year Sport hatch was a bit of a nightmare, so yeah, can't hurt especially if this is a car you'll keep forever, which I'm guessing it will be for me.

The R is technically the 2nd year of this chassis and they brought over the same engine/trans so I do not think there is much to worry about.

Sponsored