2023 Civic Type R vs. 2001 Integra Type R -- 26 Years Later, The Civic Type R Has Finally Learned All The Integra Type R’s Tricks

[Viet_Racer]

2001 Acura Integra Type R vs. 2023 Honda Civic Type R: The Circle Is Complete
26 Years Later, The Civic Type R Has Finally Learned All The Integra Type R’s Tricks

https://www.motortrend.com/features/2001-acura-integra-type-r-vs-2023-honda-civic-type-r/

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[mbaapk]

I think its comical that the new type s doesn’t do that. I guess the integra means something else nowadays.

 

[TypeRD]

Nice! I also like how they show the ITR’s adjusted price for 2023. Further proof that the FL5 is undoubtedly worth every single penny of its MSRP.

The only idiotic thing about this article is that they talk of how great the ITR shifter is, including the knob…but no pictures.

 

[Zeke01]

I had a 98 ITR and the knob it came with was just a standard leather covered one. I swapped it for the titanium teardrop jdm one. That was the look carried over into the fl5. Maybe it changed for 2001?
I loved that car but, it was always urgent on every drive. Non car people never rode with me because of the suspension and loud cabin from no sound insulation. The fl5 is more multipurpose.

 

[Noize]

Fuel economy with less rev capacity, direct injection, and forced induction is on point! Yay technological advancements.

 

[Gansan]

I had a 98 ITR and the knob it came with was just a standard leather covered one. I swapped it for the titanium teardrop jdm one. That was the look carried over into the fl5. Maybe it changed for 2001?
I loved that car but, it was always urgent on every drive. Non car people never rode with me because of the suspension and loud cabin from no sound insulation. The fl5 is more multipurpose.

The OEM knob was actually the standard leather one from the NA1 NSX. I really liked that. Yes, they did change it in 2000 I believe.

 

[M!!!]

Great read!

 

[Rhorn]

Alot of this was well before my time but I was wondered how did the Originally CTR generations (EK9/EP3) compare to the Integra Type R? Was the Integra Type R still considered to be better?

The article didn't really go into detial but I was wondering what was the differences in the suspension articulation between the two? The article mentions the Integra has a mechanical LSD but leaves out the fact that the CTR has it too. I wonder what are some of the engineering differences between them since they both are helical.

Also the FL5 has multilink rear and dual axis strut front vs the double wishbone all around in the Integra. I don't really know what that means or how that influences the drive, but it would be nice to know about that. Also chassis now are far more rigid so does the ITR feel like it has some slop and body roll?

It would be nice to drive an ITR back to back with my FL5 so I could really get a feel of how "old school" FWD feels vs new school FWD.

 

[Gansan]

Alot of this was well before my time but I was wondered how did the Originally CTR generations (EK9/EP3) compare to the Integra Type R? Was the Integra Type R still considered to be better?

The article didn't really go into detial but I was wondering what was the differences in the suspension articulation between the two? The article mentions the Integra has a mechanical LSD but leaves out the fact that the CTR has it too. I wonder what are some of the engineering differences between them since they both are helical.

Also the FL5 has multilink rear and dual axis strut front vs the double wishbone all around in the Integra. I don't really know what that means or how that influences the drive, but it would be nice to know about that. Also chassis now are far more rigid so does the ITR feel like it has some slop and body roll?

It would be nice to drive an ITR back to back with my FL5 so I could really get a feel of how "old school" FWD feels vs new school FWD.

I feel like I can answer at least the ITR part--I had a 1997 Integra Type R that I spent over a hundred days at the track with, mostly stock. I have an FK8 for comparison though and I haven't driven an FL5.

The ITR obviously did not have adaptive suspension like the new cars do. However, it had a really taut and well damped ride that let you feel the road, but absorbed the harsh bumps while letting you still feel the larger heaves and dips. Compared to the FK8 I would put it close to the default Sport setting. Part of this is the old school 195/55R15 tires that had a lot more sidewall and so the tires could soak up some of the impacts. You never had to worry about potholes back then! The ultra low profile tires in the FK8 transmit small bumps with more harshness so maybe that part is not so nice for long drives with the new cars.

There was also quite a difference in body roll. The stock DC2 ITR has "some" body roll. More than the new cars of course but much less than the contemporary GS-R. However, it's more complicated than that. Even leaned over in a corner, the suspension hangs on amazingly well and easily handles mid corner bumps without getting upset. It has a stiff rear sway bar and quite a tail-out cornering attitude for an FF car. This meant if you going through a slalom, for instance, it was easy to get the rear swinging around unless you caught it in time. Your rear tires leave a trail of rubber as you go through a corner which was kind of rare back then.

The LSD of the newer cars is more taut than the ITR. In the FK8 (and I assume the FL5), when you lean on the throttle in a corner, you get a weird sensation of it pulling into the corner. It's hard for me to tell what part of this is mechanical, what part is the electric power steering, and what part is the agile handling assist. The ITR didn't do this. It felt closer to regular FF cars in that way, although it's still an LSD and so it generally puts down the power pretty well. But there's a hundred less horsepower so the LSD didn't have to do as much work.

As far as slop, I would say not much. The ITR feels extremely rigid, but also lightweight. The light weight means the body isn't as burdened and so it doesn't have to be as rigid a structure to still feel stiff. You never felt any creaks from the chassis. I did add the Honda rear strut tower bar to mine but it was barely noticeable if at all.

Most of the sound insulation is removed, so pebbles sometimes ping off the underbody and you can hear the engine really clearly. Like all the valvetrain noises and clicking. The engine is very smooth at high revs, a result of the different counterweights on the Type R's crankshaft. No fake engine sounds needed.

One bit of slop that I noticed (only when it went away) was when I upgraded the rear upper link with an adjustable piece for camber. The new piece used spherical bearings instead of bushings and it was noticeable in high speed corners that the rear was a lot more planted thanks to the camber rigidity. The 98spec ITR released in Japan had a redesign of that same piece which had a fabricated design instead of stamped steel with a new bushing design.

 

[Zeke01]

The ITR had a 1.8 liter engine vs the 1.6 in the CTR. More torque in the larger engine. I think you should be able to google CTR vs ITR 1998 and you’ll get some period correct reading. I believe the ITR was slightly faster.

 

[Gansan]

I realized I have the perfect video clip to illustrate exactly what I was trying to say about how the ITR corners. This was a first drive from Best Motoring of the 1996 ITR. I uploaded this a long time ago and I transcribed and translated the commentary and laboriously typed it into YT and aligned the timing. You can blame me for the crappy translation. This URL starts at time index 2:56, which is a good illustration of I'm talking about. Look at the cornering attitude in the first sweeping corner. Look at the way it uses its rear tires and how tiny they are. Remember back in the mid 90s NO FF CAR CORNERED LIKE THIS! I watched this video and vowed I was going to buy it somehow.

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