For occasional track use , which oil viscosity to use? Using oil data sheet for guidance

[svvitch]

Also, just change the oil when the low oil light comes on. Done

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[tezzasaurusrex]

Is the Honda 0w20 Ultra Leo Oil, the same that comes OEM with the Type R? Is it the same as the Honda 0W-20 Ultimate Full Synthetic Motor Oil.

I cannot confirm or deny this, as there would be assembly grease applied at the factory during engine manufacturing that would affect the UOA results of the first drain.

I too have looked into this whole engine oil debacle in the past and have found the following key points.
1. HPD recommend Honda 0w20 on these engines used in their formula racing cars.
2. This is an engine you want to ensure the oil you use is certified ILSAC-6 and API SN or above for timing chain wear and LSPI protection as per the manual.
3. The specifications for the main crank and big end bearing clearances on the K20C1 and K series of old (K20A, K20Z1 etc) are for all intents and purposes identical according to the WSM. Honda recommend 5W30 on those older engines.
4. Higher viscosity oil results in higher internal friction, this is evidenced by the engine running measurably higher peak boost when running higher viscosity oils.

After studying this topic for several months and doing several UOA tests on my own car (that I drive extremely hard on track) I have come to the following conclusion:
1. You can use 0w20 to 5w30 and everything in between without issue.
2. More important than the viscosity is the additive package, which you'll only know when you do a UOA. The oil manufacturer's TDS won't specify the additive package.
3. Do your own testing, under your own driving habits, conditions and environment, and choose your oil based on the results of such testing.

Happy motoring

 

[johnloov]

So Here is the reality of engine oils.

The FL5 Honda Civic Type Requires -- certified ILSAC-6 and API SN 0w-20 oil

If you're picking engine oils simply on 0w-20 5w-30, your missing the reality -- That a modern high density power 2.0 turbo engine - designed for todays emission standards - has many variables in all of the mechanicals that need to be protected.

If the Formula team is running this engine with Honda 0w-20, then the holy grail of engine oil needs to perform equal or better to the Honda Full Synthetic, and that's what I will be researching in detail here.

So far... I'm leaning towards 0w-20 Castrol Edge Extended Performance that's certified ILSAC-6 and API SN.

It had better wear on startup than the Honda Full Synthetic, but then again, all the other variables in the chart above need to also be optimal for total long life engine performance.

You can put in the best oil for eliminating wear, but if it creates sludge, carbon build up, or it is too thick on startup, or too thick to easily lubricate small gaps that a 0w-20 engine is designed for... Then you don't have total protection and longevity of the the entire mechanical system.

 

[hoping2Get1]

I personally have ~2,000 miles on stock FL5 Oil, and it's still bright yellow, with two heavy track days at Laguna Seca. I will do an oil sample lab test at ~3k miles and 3 track days under its belt. My temps were reaching 275F with heater on and 278 with heater off on track.

I posted my ff UOA results here. At over 2k miles, oil sheared down a bit. No track time. There’s also a link to my post on BITOG, where some VOAs can be found for the Honda 2.0

 

[johnloov]

Thanks for this detailed scientific feedback. I’ll then change the oil soon and get a report also.

 

[DwightSchrute]

After reading all the recommendations, I am now more confused as to what oil to use.
Seriously though, amazon is selling the Honda 0w-20 but it says made in China. And I have a hard time trusting anything made in China. My local dealer does not sell the oem oil because they have it in bulk. Makes me wonder if they're using some other cheap oil.

 

[svvitch]

I'm not going back down this rabbit hole.

Proceeds to look at oil specs for next hour..

 

[PointByPatrol]

Here is more evidence to show, not all 0w-20's are similar. Here you can clearly see Motul 8100 vs v300 0w-20, the 8100 has a much higher flash point, viscosity is lower.

What's also interesting is, Motul v300 is a race oil that is recommended to change after every race. It is not API certified.

The Motul 8100 0w-20 is API certified - has actually a higher flash point. 460F
The Motul 300V 0w-20 is NOT API certified - has actually a lower flash point 439F

Should we be running API certified oil vs 300V, which is designed for Race built engine's that typically have lower tolerances and more gaps.

That is my understanding.

"An oil with a higher flash point could generally (though not always) be expected to be more resilient at high temps: less shear, fewer deposits, etc."

"
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Yes, a higher flash point is generally considered better in engine oil, as it indicates that the oil will resist vaporizing and igniting at lower temperatures, making it more suitable for high-heat engine environments and reducing the risk of combustion within the engine; essentially, a higher flash point means improved safety and performance under high temperatures.



"

I beat the shit out of some 300v 5w30 across two track events and street driving in between but in total probably less than 2000 miles. I sent a sample to Blackstone, and I'm curious to see what they have to say.

 

[TurboZed-R]

One thing forsure is don't base an oils performance on flash point.... flash point is used so first responders know in the even of an accident. NOACK is a test used to show an oils evaporation, not flash point. Even that is still up for debate on if It really helps valve deposits.

Motul 300v has proven to be a fantastic track oil. Any 20wt or 30wt with the proper winter rating and approval/license will all perform pretty much the same at a reasonable OCI. The real test is an extended drain and that is where sheer stability and base stock come into play.

Castrol edge gold bottle 0w20 has mb 229.71 which is the king of 20wt approvals. Anything else from castrol will be as good as it's approvals/licenses.

 

[johnloov]

I beat the shit out of some 300v 5w30 across two track events and street driving in between but in total probably less than 2000 miles. I sent a sample to Blackstone, and I'm curious to see what they have to say.

I also beat the FL5, broke it in 1000 miles then two hot hard track days at a Laguna Seca, seeing 278F oil temps on stock factory oil, sending it in.

Spoke with Blackstone labs for 30 minutes today and they even see people running 10–40 oil weight on FL5 2024. We went through several results in the database of what other F5 users are using. I asked him if he sees a difference between Motul versus cheap Castrol-edge and he said he’s not seeing much differences in results but we will test methodically every combination. Frequency of change is more important. Also, It seems you should pick numbers that are close together for example 5-20 is better than 0–20 as when the numbers are closer together there’s less viscosity modifiers which is not actual oils so you’re not getting the benefit of lubrication.

I think it maybe worth it to create a new thread, with only lab tests results, and will compile all the data points.

 

[svvitch]

@johnloov you may appreciate this?
Estimated HTFS (base-oil + DDI-package dynamic viscosity @ 150 °C (BO DV150)) and viscosity-index improver (VII) content of selected oils - Google Sheets

Does a good job showing how added VII can change shear and viscosity

 

[spectre186]

So for now, based on all the info so far…running OEM oil for 2-3 track days a year is just fine and won’t cause by engine to explode? That’s what I take away from all this.

 

[hoping2Get1]

So for now, based on all the info so far…running OEM oil for 2-3 track days a year is just fine and won’t cause by engine to explode? That’s what I take away from all this.

OEM oil, as in what the dealer put in or still on factory fill?

Recent M1 UOA post on BITOG here. Fairly early OCI and oil seems to have sheared down a bit.

 

[svvitch]

I guess I'll send in my UOA from my last change as well. 0w30 M1 ESP with a track weekend on it. Thanks all for the motivation!

 

[johnloov]

OEM oil, as in what the dealer put in or still on factory fill?

Recent M1 UOA post on BITOG here. Fairly early OCI and oil seems to have sheared down a bit.

You need to request honda ultimate full synthetic 0w-20 at dealer or they may put mobile 1 or penzoil etc…

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