*The FL5 Track Junkie Thread*

[CG13]

I run Ferodo DS1.11 pads front and rear on track. They make a lot of noise in street driving and don’t warm up easily.

I switch to Ferodo DS2500 street pads on the front. I run AP Racing Radical rotors/calipers on the front that I purchased from Essex. I reached out in advance and they advised there would be no issue swapping back and forth on the same rotors.

I leave the DS1.11 pads on the rear for street and track. I don’t use the rear brakes much so have seen no negative impact.

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[chadwicke619]

Would you mind sharing your experience with the pads: Im in similar spot coming from m2/miata. FL5 is dual duty - 10k daily miles a year in Denver with planning 5-6 track days a year.

Im prepping the car (mostly stock on 200tw track set) and cant decide what to run. All these posts make me think CSG CP or P3 front full time since im not going 10+ times or chasing laptimes. But is that pretty safe for an intermediate driver? also considering doing more aggressive pads (C1X/CP or R5/P3) and just doing swaps each time - (never have done this - kept miata on gloc R10/r8) - but then I read you have to sand and rebed the rotors with each swap. What an effort. Or swap rotors with pads to not rebed, thats too much. Whats the answer here. How are you guys managing these aggressive pads and swapping to stock and managing rotors/safety? I live in cold climate and cant daily a race pad year round, trying to keep front end in 1 piece.

You don’t need to swap rotors. If you track with an aggressive pad, when you leave the track, the pads will no longer be at temp and they’ll just start to scrub the transfer material off your rotor. As long as you have a decent little drive between track and home, by the time you get home, your rotor will be clean and shiny - then you can just swap the pads. This is what I do. Swap to track pads, drive to track, do my thing, drive home, swap back.

 

[mistople]

My C1Xbs were passable in terms of noise before bedding. Once I wore the transfer layer off driving home from the track they got pretty loud. I wouldn’t want to daily them. I think it’s fine to swap pads. Swapping rotors is overkill imo.

 

[petrik]

Thank you guys, makes sense - read more about the pads scrubbing clean on the way home, seems reasonable. So many different takes, wonder how much marketting is involved just to purchase more stuff. Ds1.11 is no joke at $700 for the fronts.

 

[petrik]

Seems like consesus across different types if cars agrees. … first slow lap beds the track pad, drive home cleans rotors…

Question
DS1.11 front and stock rear then both back to stock ok? Or is that too much front bias? Why the move to 2500s for daily?

Also CSG CP seems promising for dual(non competitive) duty

 

[mistople]

I personally would not run mismatched pads on track but some do. I know the rears are kinda underused on this platform but I’d guess having an aggressive rear helps spread the load even a little bit. Not to mention avoiding smearing and cooking a stock-ish pad.

CP is a good pad but I wouldn’t recommend it outside of beginner or very light track use. I’ve run it 3 days on my GR86 and it survives with a BBK but barely. And that’s on low grip tires. It doesn’t have the best cold bite either in my experience so it’s kind of a hybrid pad for niche use cases. I think I said earlier in the thread that it’s probably the best canyon or backroad pad where you have a bit of temp going. I’ll try it on my FL5 brembos since it’s the same pad shape for me and I can just swap over to see how it fares on a different brake system.

In my experience there is no do it all solution. You just have to accept that you need two different setups for two very different scenarios. Otherwise we would all drive race cars around to work and school pickups!

 

[petrik]

@mistople solid wisdom there, i appreciate it. Ok i think answer is ds1.11 front and rear and switch back to stock pads for daily - at least ill stay in same family if im swapping. If the car had CSG CS for street then ide go C1 but i think stock is totally great for street/little canyon.

haha good point in highschool i figured full race car everywhere 1 day. Swapping some pads nbd, this car is truly exceptional already.

 

[m3bs]

DS3.12 front, DS1.11 rear on mine. I leave them on full time. Dusty and probably a bit hard on rotors doing that, but I don't drive it much on the street. I get some noise in reverse, but not forward braking.

 

[MooMoo]

Would you mind sharing your experience with the pads: Im in similar spot coming from m2/miata. FL5 is dual duty - 10k daily miles a year in Denver with planning 5-6 track days a year.

Im prepping the car (mostly stock on 200tw track set) and cant decide what to run. All these posts make me think CSG CP or P3 front full time since im not going 10+ times or chasing laptimes. But is that pretty safe for an intermediate driver? also considering doing more aggressive pads (C1X/CP or R5/P3) and just doing swaps each time - (never have done this - kept miata on gloc R10/r8) - but then I read you have to sand and rebed the rotors with each swap. What an effort. Or swap rotors with pads to not rebed, thats too much. Whats the answer here. How are you guys managing these aggressive pads and swapping to stock and managing rotors/safety? I live in cold climate and cant daily a race pad year round, trying to keep front end in 1 piece.

Id not consider paragon pads myself (been there was not happy) but I did have the CPs and they were not enough on track for me. I know some make them work which is why I gave em a try, why not have a pad that works on street and then track, sounds wonderful.

The CP is an amazing pad, on the street is pretty great (although cold could use more bite) and very quite, then on track is quite capable. I ran a few tracks days with it and never once I needed more brakes. However I got left with a ton of deposits unfortunately. a few different tracks and I would clean the rotors and do some light sanding and be better and then deposits would be back after a track day. I talked to CSG and they told me what I already knew haha.
I am now on the C1XB and these pads are the real deal. There is a bit more bite than the CPs but still tons of good modulation. Not only they cleaned the deposits the CPs left but left no more so far. They really are fantastic. Yes they are expensive but they are great and if you have decent pace I would go with them over the CPS.

Ferodos are great too and I had em on my m2, great pad and it has been too long so can't really compare to CSG but as of right now I am a CSG convert and will only be buying that.

Out back I am currently using EBC blue and its fine, eventually will match the CSG. Its tough because they are so expensive for a tiny pad and after all said and done its $1000 pad setup.
I do hope they last a long time. I had EBC SR11 and they lasted forever and were cheap but had no modulation what so ever so I don't recommend them anymore

 

[petrik]

Appreciate the input. I read a lot of positive on C1XB... some people seem to think for intermediate driver on this car aggressive rear pads might not reach ideal temps and that can also be somewhat dangerous - just repeating what i read - and that rear swap can be more of pita.
I might call csg/ferodo and finalize which ones.

I guess there were some thoughts stock was 2500s but seems like thats not the case. Can anyone 100% confirm the 2500 definitely has higher operating temps than stock? Would make sense why u guys run them on the rears

 

[mistople]

I said it earlier in this thread but I was and continue to be amazed by the C1Xb. The cold bite on the street, far from operating range, outclasses the stock pads by a country mile. On track they were simply flawless. I have zero notes.

I do think CSG makes a street pad that they don’t seem to advertise. Not the CP. I was asking them about options for street pads for an AP Radical or Pista setup and they mentioned one that they recommend to autox folks for colder bite. If that exists and they make it in this brembo shape, it’s a take my money situation.

I agree with the above sentiment. CP is black magic for the breadth of what it does, but the cold bite has been lacking for me. Disclaimer: different car, brembo bm4 caliper, brembo slotted rotor. So maybe a different situation on the FL5. I’ll report back when I can try them.

 

[CG13]

@mistople solid wisdom there, i appreciate it. Ok i think answer is ds1.11 front and rear and switch back to stock pads for daily - at least ill stay in same family if im swapping. If the car had CSG CS for street then ide go C1 but i think stock is totally great for street/little canyon.

haha good point in highschool i figured full race car everywhere 1 day. Swapping some pads nbd, this car is truly exceptional already.

I use DS1.11 front/rear on track.

For street I switch back to DS2500 fronts and leave the DS1.11 on the rear. The rears don’t wear match and don’t make much noise.

 

[johnny.silva7]

For anybody thinking of purchasing a CSF radiator:

I got a deal on a CSF radiator recently, and decided to install it before a COTA event last weekend. I used the standard Honda Type 2 coolant so I could have an OEM comparison.

The result: once the ambient temperature approached 90 degF, my coolant temp reached 239 before I could finish my first lap (not including outlap). The CSF radiator did absolutely nothing compared to OEM. Maybe it helps in cooler weather? It looks cool though...

My setup: Yokohama A052's, Pagid RST3 fronts, Hawk DTC30 rears, Adjustable ball joints, PRL intake, TSP downpipe, CSF radiator, and Mishimoto overflow tank.

 

[CG13]

For anybody thinking of purchasing a CSF radiator:

I got a deal on a CSF radiator recently, and decided to install it before a COTA event last weekend. I used the standard Honda Type 2 coolant so I could have an OEM comparison.

The result: once the ambient temperature approached 90 degF, my coolant temp reached 239 before I could finish my first lap (not including outlap). The CSF radiator did absolutely nothing compared to OEM. Maybe it helps in cooler weather? It looks cool though...

My setup: Yokohama A052's, Pagid RST3 fronts, Hawk DTC30 rears, Adjustable ball joints, PRL intake, TSP downpipe, CSF radiator, and Mishimoto overflow tank.

That’s pretty disappointing. I don’t have any experience with the CSF but I’ve tracked the OEM radiator, PWR track spec radiator, and PWR WOT radiator with trans cooler. I am running a 19 psi pressure cap on an aftermarket Wunderladen coolant tank instead of the factory 16 psi.

239 on the first lap seems pretty high. Separate from the radiator’s effectiveness, are you really pushing hard enough to generate those intake temps and water temps on the first hot lap? I don’t think I’ve ever seen those types of temps on my very first lap (after out lap). 2-3 laps in yes, with the OEM system.

A few things that can help: remove the factory rain guard under the hood vent, run your heat on high (you can aim away from yourself to reduce fatigue, or some will say you can leave the fan off with temp set high to remove some heat from the system).

I’ve said on this forum multiple times the system benefits from better airflow (you can use WOT under tray, vented hood), oil cooler, and radiator. I’m still waiting on my vented hood but I’ve done the rest and added heat blankets to the turbo along with a TSP down pipe. I’m able to complete sessions with this setup and run pretty competitive times. There is some good information about airflow management on the site that indicates you can accomplish a lot with even the OEM system.

 

[johnny.silva7]

That’s pretty disappointing. I don’t have any experience with the CSF but I’ve tracked the OEM radiator, PWR track spec radiator, and PWR WOT radiator with trans cooler. I am running a 19 psi pressure cap on an aftermarket Wunderladen coolant tank instead of the factory 16 psi.

239 on the first lap seems pretty high. Separate from the radiator’s effectiveness, are you really pushing hard enough to generate those intake temps and water temps on the first hot lap? I don’t think I’ve ever seen those types of temps on my very first lap (after out lap). 2-3 laps in yes, with the OEM system.

A few things that can help: remove the factory rain guard under the hood vent, run your heat on high (you can aim away from yourself to reduce fatigue, or some will say you can leave the fan off with temp set high to remove some heat from the system).

I’ve said on this forum multiple times the system benefits from better airflow (you can use WOT under tray, vented hood), oil cooler, and radiator. I’m still waiting on my vented hood but I’ve done the rest and added heat blankets to the turbo along with a TSP down pipe. I’m able to complete sessions with this setup and run pretty competitive times. There is some good information about airflow management on the site that indicates you can accomplish a lot with even the OEM system.

Thanks for the feedback!

I've removed the rain guard, and I also run a WOT under tray. I'll try the downpipe and turbo heat blankets next. FWIW, I push the car hard. In this particular example, I was driving 2:34 pace at COTA and still driving conservatively to reduce heat stress - early shift points and lifting off throttle in certain sections.

My next step would be WOT oil cooler and radiator, but I would hate to go down that rabbit hole only to find minimal improvement bc I have a bigger problem.

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