EVS BALL JOINTS OR WHITELINE BALL JOINTS FOR CAMBER?

[PointByPatrol]

Red = Fast of course

Stay away from yellow though. Yellow = too fast.

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[MERAKIAUTOWORKS]

I ran whiteline on mine, had EVS For my s2k, both are great.

-Josh

 

[optronix]

as ctechauto mentioned they are not the same, some have pins some have plates.

I personally prefer the little plates as some people have had issues with the whitelines on the fk8 forum.

From my research I do think hardrace makes a lot of these, I think EVS is hardrace, and I am 99.5% sure megan ones are also hardrace and so are Js racing.

If you want to save some money get the megans, thats what I did. Have not installed yet but they look identical to the hardraces which look identical to the EVS minus the anodized.

They're the same in that they do the same thing. I didn't mean to infer that the "mechanism" they use for adjustment is the same. But functionally, I can't really refute an argument for or against one being "better" than the other.

That said, I'm confused- you say you prefer the "little plates", but to me that description fits the Whitelines... but I suppose "plates" could be used to describe the EVS as well (personally I'd use "eccentric inserts")? It's all semantics but also to be fair I was called out for saying "they're the same" when I meant "they do the same thing"...

From context you seem to be referencing the EVS, because of the issues people are having with the Whitelines on the FK8 (which I am curious about, because as far as I understand they're the exact same part).

Whitelines:

EVS:

Also here's a quick reference point from Evasive Motorsports, who sell 4 different ball joints (i.e., 4 different vendors). It looks like J's Racing are virtually identical to the EVS, and Hardrace is the same design as Whiteline.

All are significantly more expensive than the EVS. I can't imagine this is a "get what you pay for" situation. Kind of interesting though.

https://www.evasivemotorsports.com/store/category/ball-joints-roll-center-adjuster/?MANUFACTURER=Honda&MODEL_1=Civic Type R FL5&Per_Page=12&Sort_By=disp_order

 

[MooMoo]

They're the same in that they do the same thing. I didn't mean to infer that the "mechanism" they use for adjustment is the same. But functionally, I can't really refute an argument for or against one being "better" than the other.

That said, I'm confused- you say you prefer the "little plates", but to me that description fits the Whitelines... but I suppose "plates" could be used to describe the EVS as well (personally I'd use "eccentric inserts")? It's all semantics but also to be fair I was called out for saying "they're the same" when I meant "they do the same thing"...

From context you seem to be referencing the EVS, because of the issues people are having with the Whitelines on the FK8 (which I am curious about, because as far as I understand they're the exact same part).

Whitelines:

EVS:

Also here's a quick reference point from Evasive Motorsports, who sell 4 different ball joints (i.e., 4 different vendors). It looks like J's Racing are virtually identical to the EVS, and Hardrace is the same design as Whiteline.

All are significantly more expensive than the EVS. I can't imagine this is a "get what you pay for" situation. Kind of interesting though.

https://www.evasivemotorsports.com/store/category/ball-joints-roll-center-adjuster/?MANUFACTURER=Honda&MODEL_1=Civic Type R FL5&Per_Page=12&Sort_By=disp_order

yeah sorry they both have little plates but little pins vs cutouts. I can try to find it but on the fk8 forums people had issues with the design that uses the little pins. In a way it does make sense as its another point of stress. I actually seem to remember that hardrace used to make these with the little pins and then switched to the current design.


I don't think its a you get what you pay for ordeal because I honestly think hard race makes all of them.

Js Racing which cost $400 - A company that doesn't make crap and just gets stuff made and adds $$$ to the price

Hard race

Megan racing (which are $50 cheaper usually than the hard race, a vendor told me made by hard race) - they are $250

Thats why i say, but the cheapest ones as they are probably all made by hard race lol

We have a joke in group that every part is made by hard race


edit - hard race used to have the pins, I have found images online. Also the EVS might or might not be made by hardrace, shape seems the same but different color and not only on the body)

 

[mattrose4]

They're the same in that they do the same thing. I didn't mean to infer that the "mechanism" they use for adjustment is the same. But functionally, I can't really refute an argument for or against one being "better" than the other.

That said, I'm confused- you say you prefer the "little plates", but to me that description fits the Whitelines... but I suppose "plates" could be used to describe the EVS as well (personally I'd use "eccentric inserts")? It's all semantics but also to be fair I was called out for saying "they're the same" when I meant "they do the same thing"...

From context you seem to be referencing the EVS, because of the issues people are having with the Whitelines on the FK8 (which I am curious about, because as far as I understand they're the exact same part).

Whitelines:

EVS:

Also here's a quick reference point from Evasive Motorsports, who sell 4 different ball joints (i.e., 4 different vendors). It looks like J's Racing are virtually identical to the EVS, and Hardrace is the same design as Whiteline.

All are significantly more expensive than the EVS. I can't imagine this is a "get what you pay for" situation. Kind of interesting though.

https://www.evasivemotorsports.com/store/category/ball-joints-roll-center-adjuster/?MANUFACTURER=Honda&MODEL_1=Civic Type R FL5&Per_Page=12&Sort_By=disp_order

thats a lot of good input and yea I understood what you meant. I went with the EVS options just due to price and getting the same end result when its all set and done. I love Whiteline and have their whole catalog on my sti. Great brand, great quality. I only went with EVS for due to price point and it giving the same result

 

[optronix]

thats a lot of good input and yea I understood what you meant. I went with the EVS options just due to price and getting the same end result when its all set and done. I love Whiteline and have their whole catalog on my sti. Great brand, great quality. I only went with EVS for due to price point and it giving the same result

That's ultimately what I landed on too. I was very happy with the result. Have you had your car out to autocross already? For me I got to experience every stage- stock, lowered with Eibach Pro-kit, then adding the ball joints. I've been at -3.5 degrees (max setting, no strut pins pulled) since install, and it was a night and day difference. Even just driving on the street, turn in and (to me) steering feel were all enhanced. Even more noticeably with stickier tires as I switched from the OEM PS4S to Falken RT660+. I really like the way the car is dialed in now, because after the springs (before the added camber), I felt like I ruined the car. Not an understatement.

This reminds me though- I need to get my toe checked because I suspect it's off on the passenger side. I completely shredded the right front tire in just about 1500 miles, and I'm sure 98% of it was during autocross. Just the one tire so I suspect it's toe-related, but I wouldn't be shocked if -3.5 degrees of camber has something to do with accelerated tire wear.

 

[mattrose4]

That's ultimately what I landed on too. I was very happy with the result. Have you had your car out to autocross already? For me I got to experience every stage- stock, lowered with Eibach Pro-kit, then adding the ball joints. I've been at -3.5 degrees (max setting, no strut pins pulled) since install, and it was a night and day difference. Even just driving on the street, turn in and (to me) steering feel were all enhanced. Even more noticeably with stickier tires as I switched from the OEM PS4S to Falken RT660+. I really like the way the car is dialed in now, because after the springs (before the added camber), I felt like I ruined the car. Not an understatement.

This reminds me though- I need to get my toe checked because I suspect it's off on the passenger side. I completely shredded the right front tire in just about 1500 miles, and I'm sure 98% of it was during autocross. Just the one tire so I suspect it's toe-related, but I wouldn't be shocked if -3.5 degrees of camber has something to do with accelerated tire wear.

Yea Ive been doing autocross for a couple years now and compete in 3 different regions, but I always used my built sti. That is broke right now so im going to use the fl5 and I did do a fun event at the end of last year but I was on street tires and not set up at all, but the only reason why I did it was becasue we needed more heads so the event wasnt cancelled lol I didnt even touch my tire pressures since it was a non point event and VERY cold out.

Currently my build on the fl5 is apex 18x10.5 et 47 vs-5rs wheels with re71 rs 275 35 18's, eibach sportline lowering springs, prl intake, and acuity 4 way shifter. I did motul 75w-90 gear oil, and motul 660 brake fluid. very mild and just want to prioritize grip over power. I just ordered the EVS ball joints so I'm going to start at -3.0 camber and make adjustments from there. Im very excited to see how the car performs in comparison to my purpose built subaru. I love the car so far, but I have zero intention making it an only track purpose build. Very mild with all the grip!

 

[REDRAGN]

as ctechauto mentioned they are not the same, some have pins some have plates.

I personally prefer the little plates as some people have had issues with the whitelines on the fk8 forum.

From my research I do think hardrace makes a lot of these, I think EVS is hardrace, and I am 99.5% sure megan ones are also hardrace and so are Js racing.

If you want to save some money get the megans, thats what I did. Have not installed yet but they look identical to the hardraces which look identical to the EVS minus the anodized.

I had a Whiteline fail on my FK8. It was the actual balljoint getting sloppy not anything to do with the pins or adjustment plates...but it was a track only car and I was VERY hard on the curbs. Got it replaced and no more issues ever...maybe just a bad part?

I do like the easier adjustability on the Whiteline but honestly once you get it set you are probably never adjusting again so there's that!

 

[ctechauto]

To be fair, LBJs are wear and tear / maintenance items, especially for track cars anyway. <insert brand here> would have met the same fate if they were on a 100% dedicated track car that were aggressive on the kerbs

 

[REDRAGN]

To be fair, LBJs are wear and tear / maintenance items, especially for track cars anyway. <insert brand here> would have met the same fate if they were on a 100% dedicated track car that were aggressive on the kerbs

I'm not faulting the brand...but it was a very quick failure. Parts definitely fail in high stress environments!

But it was warrantied quickly and no further issues over 2 more years of abuse.

Just mentioned it since FK8 failures were referenced and possibly it was mine as it was an early known failure over on CivicX.

 

[MooMoo]

I'm not faulting the brand...but it was a very quick failure. Parts definitely fail in high stress environments!

But it was warrantied quickly and no further issues over 2 more years of abuse.

Just mentioned it since FK8 failures were referenced and possibly it was mine as it was an early known failure over on CivicX.

can’t confirm but i seem to recall the failure was from the little pins but need to find it

 

[alSpeed2k]

I was pondering which ball joint to get as well. I could get Hardrace and Whiteline from local shops. I decided to go with Hardrace based upon info I found in this thread.

 

[PointByPatrol]

Yea Ive been doing autocross for a couple years now and compete in 3 different regions, but I always used my built sti. That is broke right now so im going to use the fl5 and I did do a fun event at the end of last year but I was on street tires and not set up at all, but the only reason why I did it was becasue we needed more heads so the event wasnt cancelled lol I didnt even touch my tire pressures since it was a non point event and VERY cold out.

Currently my build on the fl5 is apex 18x10.5 et 47 vs-5rs wheels with re71 rs 275 35 18's, eibach sportline lowering springs, prl intake, and acuity 4 way shifter. I did motul 75w-90 gear oil, and motul 660 brake fluid. very mild and just want to prioritize grip over power. I just ordered the EVS ball joints so I'm going to start at -3.0 camber and make adjustments from there. Im very excited to see how the car performs in comparison to my purpose built subaru. I love the car so far, but I have zero intention making it an only track purpose build. Very mild with all the grip!

I've found that the FL5 doesn't really need too much camber in the front. I had been running at 3.2 degrees for a while and kept wearing out the inside edges of my front tires. Toe on each alignment was set to zero. I align the car before and after I go to the track as well. A friend of me that follows HRC pretty closely urged me to back off the camber to 2.7-2.8, which I've done, and my tire wear has been significantly better!

 

[mattrose4]

I've found that the FL5 doesn't really need too much camber in the front. I had been running at 3.2 degrees for a while and kept wearing out the inside edges of my front tires. Toe on each alignment was set to zero. I align the car before and after I go to the track as well. A friend of me that follows HRC pretty closely urged me to back off the camber to 2.7-2.8, which I've done, and my tire wear has been significantly better!

What size tire are you running?

 

[optronix]

I've found that the FL5 doesn't really need too much camber in the front. I had been running at 3.2 degrees for a while and kept wearing out the inside edges of my front tires. Toe on each alignment was set to zero. I align the car before and after I go to the track as well. A friend of me that follows HRC pretty closely urged me to back off the camber to 2.7-2.8, which I've done, and my tire wear has been significantly better!

I've been considering dropping back to a less aggressive camber. I do really like the way the car drives but if I'm chewing up tires every 5k miles that is too extreme for my tastes.

The thing is, these ball joints don't really offer a huge amount of precision in adjustability. You get 1 degree increments; for the EVS at least, I can validate that the "least aggressive" setting leaves you at OEM, then you get -1 and -2. That's it... so if I'm at -1.5 at the OEM setting (after Eibach Pro-kit springs), then I have the option of -2.5, or -3.5. The other option is to pull the strut tower pins, which is a ghetto version of adjustable camber plates that I've surmised through anecdotes gets you at most another .2-.3 degrees... which is why I actually want and will likely eventually move to actual adjustable camber plates. I feel like an almost full degree of camber would hurt the way the car rotates during autocross, which is my primary use case. I want to try -3 but can't get there with my current amount of adjustability.

Especially if I can get any validation from folks on here that have tried the roll-center adjusters on this platform. I have yet to find ANYONE with them installed so zero testimonials to go off of. I don't want to re-architect my suspension mods on a hunch.

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