The FL5 Dealer ADM Markup Thread

[zmago]

Finally got a dealer to accept a deposit on future allocation at $2,500 over MSRP. 2nd on the list so 1-2 year wait is their expectation. Fully refundable so who knows if the deposit is even worth the paper it's printed on.

I have to say, though, as much as I love(d) Hondas and love this car, the way Honda has dealt with this car has soured me somewhat on the brand. They release an uber-desirable car and then trickle out 1-2 cars/year to most dealerships, with absolutely no attempts at trying to make dealers be reasonable (which clearly can be done, as evidenced by other brands trying to keep dealers in line). Honda knew exactly how their customers would be treated as a result.

I called Beurkle Honda in MN the other day and when going over the pricing and asking what accessories I would have to buy, the guy literally started laughing and said "Take your pick, and we're probably going to make you buy it". This is on top of their 15k ADM. The whole buying process has definitely toned down my love for Hondas in general.

This is something that has puzzled my mind since this car was hinted at years ago. Someone (I won't name names, I have no idea who reads these forums) from Honda Corporate told me that Honda spent nearly $1.8B (with a B!) on FL5 R&D, and nearly 50% of it on marketing alone. They hyped it to oblivion, only to not deliver the car whatsoever. And yes, it is true that each dealer gets 1 (possibly 2, less than half of dealers get 2) per year. All that marketing, all that media, all those reviews, all those events, all that hype, hype, hype, to deliver - NOTHING.

And...to add insult to injury, completely unhinged dealerships. People who had NOTHING to do with the car's development, production get to hold the car hostage until you pay a ransom called ADM for them to release the car. Company who did all the work says this car costs $44K but you can't have it. It needs to go to a third party parasite called franchise dealer so they can rob you. This madness with the dinosaur franchise car dealership needs to disappear. This is a US problem, not a world problem. I grew up in Europe and travel there frequently. You go into a car store, you tell them what you want, you pay portion of it and wait until the car comes from the factory. If they have the car there which a lot of them do (regular cars in general), you pay what the OEM said and you go on your way. People in Europe don't believe me when I start telling them how the dealership system works in the US and the fact that there are actual LAWS that MANDATE dealerships to exist. It's a textbook mafia-style business.

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[ELIAS64]

This is something that has puzzled my mind since this car was hinted at years ago. Someone (I won't name names, I have no idea who reads these forums) from Honda Corporate told me that Honda spent nearly $1.8B (with a B!) on FL5 R&D, and nearly 50% of it on marketing alone. They hyped it to oblivion, only to not deliver the car whatsoever. And yes, it is true that each dealer gets 1 (possibly 2, less than half of dealers get 2) per year. All that marketing, all that media, all those reviews, all those events, all that hype, hype, hype, to deliver - NOTHING.

And...to add insult to injury, completely unhinged dealerships. People who had NOTHING to do with the car's development, production get to hold the car hostage until you pay a ransom called ADM for them to release the car. Company who did all the work says this car costs $44K but you can't have it. It needs to go to a third party parasite called franchise dealer so they can rob you. This madness with the dinosaur franchise car dealership needs to disappear. This is a US problem, not a world problem. I grew up in Europe and travel there frequently. You go into a car store, you tell them what you want, you pay portion of it and wait until the car comes from the factory. If they have the car there which a lot of them do (regular cars in general), you pay what the OEM said and you go on your way. People in Europe don't believe me when I start telling them how the dealership system works in the US and the fact that there are actual LAWS that MANDATE dealerships to exist. It's a textbook mafia-style business.

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[OahuBrew]

I'm working on a deal right now...

$8k markup, and a *healthy* trade-in value in my favor.

half of me is saying "don't you ever pay markup you loser", while the other half of me is justifying with "you would never have gotten that trade-in value outside of this crazy market, so it all evens out".

thoughts? i have a 2014 honda civic with a little over 100k miles, great condition. they're offering $13,500 for it, which is in line with KBB value and $3,500 over CarMax valuation.

Looks at the final number that’s all that matters. They’ll move them around anyway you want. Here in az where I bought my Trd pros I got a better deal ata markup dealer than an msrp because they gave me 6k more on my trade even though I paid 4K more than msrp. It’s the final number that you have to be happy with. The bank financing won’t care either way. That’s how the msrp dealers get you. They low all the trade give you the old but you’ll save 4K in taxes. Umm yeah but if you gave me 50k instead of 44k I’d save even more on taxes and have 6k extra. That’s them stealing your money.

 

[optronix]

Looks at the final number that’s all that matters. They’ll move them around anyway you want. Here in az where I bought my Trd pros I got a better deal ata markup dealer than an msrp because they gave me 6k more on my trade even though I paid 4K more than msrp. It’s the final number that you have to be happy with. The bank financing won’t care either way. That’s how the msrp dealers get you. They low all the trade give you the old but you’ll save 4K in taxes. Umm yeah but if you gave me 50k instead of 44k I’d save even more on taxes and have 6k extra. That’s them stealing your money.

This is 10000% accurate. Just happened to me in October with my 718 Boxster GTS 4.0 "at MSRP"... got creamed on trade value for a 2019 718 BGTS "but the tax credit"... not much I could do as I placed the order in January (10 months prior) and I was standing next to the car.

Buyer beware. Even if you find one at MSRP, there are other ways they can make their money.

 

[Obscure_Worship]

This is what happens when you let industries lobby and line the pockets of law makers. Essentially the policies are crafted by the people the policies are supposed to "regulate."

 

[AbeTypeR]

200+ more cars added to the list today. Some dealers are getting 3+ . Time to hit the phones again for those still looking

 

[bRYANT619]

Been calling dealers all morning, most are still coming back at 10k minimum and a few have told me 20k

 

[hhkb]

Looks at the final number that’s all that matters. They’ll move them around anyway you want. Here in az where I bought my Trd pros I got a better deal ata markup dealer than an msrp because they gave me 6k more on my trade even though I paid 4K more than msrp. It’s the final number that you have to be happy with. The bank financing won’t care either way. That’s how the msrp dealers get you. They low all the trade give you the old but you’ll save 4K in taxes. Umm yeah but if you gave me 50k instead of 44k I’d save even more on taxes and have 6k extra. That’s them stealing your money.

Right! Both dealers I'm negotiating with have agreed to give me KBB value for my trade-in.

I'm still holding all of this with a grain of salt. I have all of these conversations written in email so I can always point to their own word. I'm walking out if they walk back on their own word

 

[JDMFTW]

I’m very angry with the situation but I also want a type r. I’m not sure what’s a reasonable price/markup. I was offered $7,500 over MSRP for a car that should be available in the next few months. Thoughts?

 

[spectre186]

If you don’t take it at that price, someone else most likely will. I passed on a 7500 markup and it was gone within 3 days.

 

[hhkb]

If you don’t take it at that price, someone else most likely will. I passed on a 7500 markup and it was gone within 3 days.

There’s one local dealer that agreed to $8k markup and it’s been sitting since January. They’re advertising as $15k markup but I was able to negotiate down. I’m still holding out for <$5k markup.

 

[AspecR]

Been calling dealers all morning, most are still coming back at 10k minimum and a few have told me 20k

If you can, it’s better to go in, dealerships receive a ton of calls everyday from interested parties but less than 5% actually walk through the door.

On the phone they’ll always start high, helped a friend talk down a $22k ADM to $8k. That would never happen if he just stuck to the phone.

 

[hhkb]

Valencia has a CW for $5k ADM + $10k in mandatory accessories.

 

[mbaapk]

Finally got a dealer to accept a deposit on future allocation at $2,500 over MSRP. 2nd on the list so 1-2 year wait is their expectation. Fully refundable so who knows if the deposit is even worth the paper it's printed on.

I have to say, though, as much as I love(d) Hondas and love this car, the way Honda has dealt with this car has soured me somewhat on the brand. They release an uber-desirable car and then trickle out 1-2 cars/year to most dealerships, with absolutely no attempts at trying to make dealers be reasonable (which clearly can be done, as evidenced by other brands trying to keep dealers in line). Honda knew exactly how their customers would be treated as a result.

I called Beurkle Honda in MN the other day and when going over the pricing and asking what accessories I would have to buy, the guy literally started laughing and said "Take your pick, and we're probably going to make you buy it". This is on top of their 15k ADM. The whole buying process has definitely toned down my love for Hondas in general.

I got mine from Beurkle at 4k over and my parents are locked in at 3k for the next one. I call bs. They are booked 12 deep so they don’t even have a spot in line. Who did you speak with?

 

[NERO808]

Didn’t think I’d be tempted in its first year of production but here I am starting my look for an FL5 and man these dealers are brutal. Can’t get below 10k ADM anywhere.

I have a ‘20 SGP Type R I want to trade in and would most likely get around 12-16k on it but I’m not willing to use that just to get ahead on ADM. I just want to get a good number on my trade, show up pre-approved, and be out

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