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VPMotors

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Unfortunately it does nothing with Honda

remember Chevy and their whole “anyone who charges over sticker for the Vette will be in trouble” bullshit?

yea well nothing has happened…meanwhile most dealers are still selling their vettes $20-30k over sticker and they’re still selling

ford doing zero to the dealers charging crazy bumps on broncos and lightnings

do I hate adm? Of course

Will anything happen to dealers charging adm, especially in times like this? No
Yeah I agree with you on this but again if not a few at least 1 dealer would give up? Like the Z06 dealer or the Golf R dealer did? I count that as a small win.

 

tuhroo

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Yeah I agree with you on this but again if not a few at least 1 dealer would give up? Like the Z06 dealer or the Golf R dealer did? I count that as a small win.
Is it a start? For sure…like I said I wish there was never an adm added, but it’d all about supply and demand, same shit goes for stuff in the sneaker world

You think Honda of Los Angeles would’ve sold that car for msrp if it wasn’t told by Honda to do so since it was Honda Pro’s car? No way lol

They will not punish these dealers, because their top dealers are the ones doing the adm & it’s usually the smaller independently owned dealers doing the msrp sales

Autonation had a set $10k minimum adm on ALL of their fl5’s across the country
 

Shankmeyster

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I still can't understand the embargo until the 18th on reviews as people have already got the car on the streets and are all over social media with it. I know Dustin Williams has one on order as well and probably Ben from Gears and Gas.
 
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Ministry

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Actually delete - I'd rather not muddy up this thread with more ADM talk, we have another area for that.
 

davemarco

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I personally think the car should not be touched. I understand the wheel and tire thing of course. If I decide to keep it long term I will work with Ohlins on a real damper setup (read between lines) also will 100% have to reflash the car to get stability control defeated in in Individual mode. (Can't turn it off except in +R) and also disable fake engine noise.

To expand on other question about markups, they didn't have unlimited budget for this car so there are things they were not able to do. So while it's a very complete car for price they didn't do a mechanical induction solution. They re used same shocks with different profiles, but kept same springs etc. The shocks are nothing compares to ZF units on German offerings. So not worth paying high prices on a car that doesn't deserve it.
I'd be very eager to get a mechanical comparison to the FK8 in your review. It seems like they transplanted all of the same mechanical parts from the last Type R into a new, slightly stiffer chassis, along with some minor tuning of the engine and suspension. I'm really hoping that I'm wrong and there's some special sauce in there worth the upgrade, but I'm starting to get the impression that it's pretty much the same car with some extra refinement.
 


CTR

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I look forward to hearing what you guys think of the FL5! Your YouTube channel is one of the few where I genuinely respect your opinion. You and Jack always say it like it is which is rare in this space.

As someone of a similar age and history of vehicle ownership (I drove an AP1 S2000 for about 10 years) I'm hoping to hear that this car has some of that character while still being a practical daily/occasional kid hauler. The FK8 was tempting but I couldn't get over the styling.
 

Rhorn

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And who can forget the GM dealer who took off any markups on the Z06 after a buyer posted his quote on social media...... I would say we should start calling the dealers out in a similar fashion and maybe a few would give in. Unless people keep paying ridiculous markups (no hate for those people it's their money but nevertheless they're not helping the cause).
You guys act like this isnt happening already happening. There are pictures on this website that get pulled from Facebook that show the crazy order forms that people are getting. The images get shared on other sites. I saw a 175k CTR listed on Reddit lol
 

davemarco

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You guys act like this isnt happening already happening. There are pictures on this website that get pulled from Facebook that show the crazy order forms that people are getting. The images get shared on other sites. I saw a 175k CTR listed on Reddit lol
I had a SoCal Porsche dealer offer me a new Boxster Spyder for significantly less markup than Santa Monica Honda wants for their FL5.
 

JBO

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@savagegeese welcome!
We know the car is going to be great, but I have only one question.
What is the car like on bad public roads in comfort mode?
Does it jiggle you around like jello, or is it firm but controlled with no pogo-ing?
All the track videos so far have been useless. Full R+ mode on terrible circuits that make the ride quality look entirely absent.
Hoping for good news on comfort mode!
Love your YouTube channel by the way.
Cheers and thanks from Adelaide, South Australia
 

Tickle

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I'd be very eager to get a mechanical comparison to the FK8 in your review. It seems like they transplanted all of the same mechanical parts from the last Type R into a new, slightly stiffer chassis, along with some minor tuning of the engine and suspension. I'm really hoping that I'm wrong and there's some special sauce in there worth the upgrade, but I'm starting to get the impression that it's pretty much the same car with some extra refinement.
As someone who doesn't own an FK8 I am excited for the car to a more refined version of the FK8.

Drift King mentioned it isn't huge departure from the FK8. With the changes that Honda made that probably makes sense. In comparison, I find the 11th generation better than the 10th. It is still a front-wheel drive car powered by the same/very similar engine with similar dimensions made by the same company for the same class. It only seems normal that the changes are incremental. Not unlike a 911.


I had a SoCal Porsche dealer offer me a new Boxster Spyder for significantly less markup than Santa Monica Honda wants for their FL5.
Significantly less hype there too.
 
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DPE

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The big thing will be if they fixed the cooling. Even on the road on an 85 degree day on a good twisty my FK8 was heating up and pulling power within 5 minutes (admittedly this was 9/10ths driving on a deserted road, but still, every other car I've had handled temps better). And of course the same if it's above 80 or so and you try to do a track day. I did find it would hang in there pretty well on track in terms of not fully capitulating, but you're down 50hp or so on a hot day from what it feels like. And that sucks. Normally have parity with my friend in his 981 Cayman S, but on hot days I'm a few seconds a lap behind. Fixing that alone would be worth the upgrade for me if I don't decide to do something entirely different.

Also sounds like the new car allows more rotation from the factory, which is always welcome on a FWD car. And of course the interior/infotainment is an order of magnitude better on the new Civics; wife has a 2022 Si, and it's much nicer inside than my FK8 save for the seats.

Great to see the Geese on here; some of the vids in the last few years are absolutely the best out there on a given car. Great asset to the FL5 community.

And last, I'll plug Roper Honda in Joplin, Missouri. FK8 at sticker in 2019, 2022 Si at sticker this last April, and I'm in line for an FL5 at sticker. No BS, great to work with. I have to drive a couple hundred miles, but they do things right. (Please note this, American Honda, and send them more FL5s so I get mine sooner! I'm third in line so I suspect it'll be a while...)
 
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randomFL5guy

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@savagegeese Appreciate that you're taking the time to get the communities' thoughts and questions! Curious to know if you've heard anything about production numbers? Should we expect more or less cars than with the FK8? Would also love to hear more (when you're allowed to speak about it of course) about how you'd compare this car to the GR Corolla.
 

WindJunkie

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Regional reps are keeping a close on dealers who are doing mark up BS to make sure allocations go to those not playing games
Whoever told you that, lied.

US Honda dealers have been price gouging customers looking to buy the 11th gen Civic Si for over a year now and there is nothing being done by Honda about it (they are not holding back allocations). The CTR will be no different.

Honda didn't do anything about dealer greed for the entire 10th gen CTR deliveries either, from 2017 to the very last 2021 models, dealers constantly sold above MSRP and did very little negotiating. When I was buying my CTR LE, I was quoted THREE TIMES over $100k for the car. Not to mention the dozens of quotes at or above $70k. Completely outrageous.

Source:
I've bought two CTRs, helped two different friends buy a CTR, and helped a family member buy a CTR. Each time was the same buying experience:
The buyer had to buy the CTR from out of town (or worse, out of state) after many ridiculous hours of calling, emailing and texting in order to finally get one at MSRP.

Honda dealers have been so bad since 2017 that I've now got full blown cognitive dissonance toward them. I love Honda, but I have great disdain for the buying experience at Honda.
 

Rainy4s

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@savagegeese good to see you here, just want to ask if the tires on test car are H0 marked Cup2?

In Japan, bespoke Cup2 connect was used for media track tests in Suzuka rather than real OEM bespoke PS4s, IT IS H0 marked for Honda(like BMW's *marked, Porsche's N-marked etc.). Both tires are modified to fit FWD cars better. You can't spec those Cup2c on Honda JP configurator.

It's, as claimed, 補修パーツ品/replacement/repair parts that you can buy from a JP Honda dealer. In US, you also can't spec Cup2c on the configurator, and The Drive claimed, in the test track event, the test car is equipped with normal retail Cup2, no specific sidewall, so you can buy it anywhere.

The reason I ask is that some JP media claim that, at Suzuka, it was possible to shorten the lap time by about 2 seconds by using these H0 marked Cup2c, compared to the OEM bespoke PS4s, and it recorded a lateral G of about 1.3G. And the Suzuka Record time is done by using these specific Cup2c tires

本田cup2轮胎.png






020_o.jpg
 
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OP
OP

savagegeese

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The big thing will be if they fixed the cooling. Even on the road on an 85 degree day on a good twisty my FK8 was heating up and pulling power within 5 minutes (admittedly this was 9/10ths driving on a deserted road, but still, every other car I've had handled temps better). And of course the same if it's above 80 or so and you try to do a track day. I did find it would hang in there pretty well on track in terms of not fully capitulating, but you're down 50hp or so on a hot day from what it feels like. And that sucks. Normally have parity with my friend in his 981 Cayman S, but on hot days I'm a few seconds a lap behind. Fixing that alone would be worth the upgrade for me if I don't decide to do something entirely different.

Also sounds like the new car allows more rotation from the factory, which is always welcome on a FWD car. And of course the interior/infotainment is an order of magnitude better on the new Civics; wife has a 2022 Si, and it's much nicer inside than my FK8 save for the seats.
So we drove when it was 60F and cars were running all day for 4 laps at a time with 10 minute breaks. During the F1 launch, we were told by support race drivers that Perez and Max ran both cars for almost 2 hours straight, they had zero mechanical issues. (As far as my driving I can't say anything but attached image)

Attached is the temps from our 15 minute film run at 9-10/10ths
gauge.jpg


cooling.jpg





@savagegeese Appreciate that you're taking the time to get the communities' thoughts and questions! Curious to know if you've heard anything about production numbers? Should we expect more or less cars than with the FK8? Would also love to hear more (when you're allowed to speak about it of course) about how you'd compare this car to the GR Corolla.
Honda will not talk about production numbers or capacity. And chances are on the USA side they have no idea because the J team chose to have the Type R built in their most advanced factory. We know they have 10k cars to be made for Japanese market that have to be produced by end of next year and that will take priority Id say chances are slim they make 20k in a year. This company confuses me. When I go to Japan in January we are doing an NSX/S2000 documentary with all of the retired engineers and Mugen so I will see if I can get a better answer.

Whoever told you that, lied.

US Honda dealers have been price gouging customers looking to buy the 11th gen Civic Si for over a year now and there is nothing being done by Honda about it (they are not holding back allocations). The CTR will be no different.

Honda didn't do anything about dealer greed for the entire 10th gen CTR deliveries either, from 2017 to the very last 2021 models, dealers constantly sold above MSRP and did very little negotiating. When I was buying my CTR LE, I was quoted THREE TIMES over $100k for the car. Not to mention the dozens of quotes at or above $70k. Completely outrageous.

Source:
I've bought two CTRs, helped two different friends buy a CTR, and helped a family member buy a CTR. Each time was the same buying experience:
The buyer had to buy the CTR from out of town (or worse, out of state) after many ridiculous hours of calling, emailing and texting in order to finally get one at MSRP.

Honda dealers have been so bad since 2017 that I've now got full blown cognitive dissonance toward them. I love Honda, but I have great disdain for the buying experience at Honda.
I am sure you are right, but I spoke with Honda corp directly and they are worried about PR because this is a "halo" product. Time will tell and people need to be sharing every incident on here with dealer names and salesperson info.

 

 
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