Thoughts on FL5 vs FK8 (by savagegeese)

[savagegeese]

@savagegeese Yeah, that's what I assumed, but good for you to confirm. It then doesn't compute to me that the car Honda ran at the Nurburgring to set the record time was in +R suspension mode with OEM springs/rates and OEM dampers. It would mean they left time on the table, and no way that makes any sense. So whatever they ran ("Type R S" version car) had some suspension tuning different than OEM.

The LPL told us all development was done at Suzuka. So they clearly calibrated it for a glass track. I think there are certain areas it helps the front end dig in and rotate the car as well but, its mostly worse on almost every normal track.

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[spectre186]

Fantastic video. Really changed what I thought of the ITS! Sounds like quite the all around car!

 

[urbo73]

The LPL told us all development was done at Suzuka. So they clearly calibrated it for a glass track. I think there are certain areas it helps the front end dig in and rotate the car as well but, its mostly worse on almost every normal track.

Right, which is why it makes no sense to run it for a record lap on the Nurburgring.

 

[keller]

Right, which is why it makes no sense to run it for a record lap on the Nurburgring.

I would have expected the same. The fk8 record run was in comfort mode.

 

[I used to vtec]

I skimmed but not sure if I missed this, so I will ask - at what price point do you prefer the FL5 to the DE5 and vice versa?

Right now I am on waitlists for an FL5 at 6k over MSRP, 5k over MSRP, and 1k over MSRP (but will probably never get an allocation, truthfully). I now have an ITS @ MSRP that the dealer thinks will be here sometime end of the year.

The rational(?) part of my brain says if I'm going to spend 50k on a CTR, I might as well spend the extra 1-2k and get the ITS with its extra features. The irrational part of my brain says the CTR feels more special, and I should just wait that one out.

 

[savagegeese]

I skimmed but not sure if I missed this, so I will ask - at what price point do you prefer the FL5 to the DE5 and vice versa?

Right now I am on waitlists for an FL5 at 6k over MSRP, 5k over MSRP, and 1k over MSRP (but will probably never get an allocation, truthfully). I now have an ITS @ MSRP that the dealer thinks will be here sometime end of the year.

The rational(?) part of my brain says if I'm going to spend 50k on a CTR, I might as well spend the extra 1-2k and get the ITS with its extra features. The irrational part of my brain says the CTR feels more special, and I should just wait that one out.

I cant really help you justify what is important to you from the money end. In your gut what is the car you would rather drive regardless of price?

Is this going to be your only car/daily?

If its a daily and you can actually get an ITS at sticker its a better car for that. But, we dont buy cars like these for purely practical reasons. Where is your heart at?

 

[I used to vtec]

I cant really help you justify what is important to you from the money end. In your gut what is the car you would rather drive regardless of price?

Is this going to be your only car/daily?

If its a daily and you can actually get an ITS at sticker its a better car for that. But, we dont buy cars like these for purely practical reasons. Where is your heart at?

That's fair, this is largely an emotional purchase rather than a practical one. I've never driven either an FL5 or DE5, only ridden in an FL5, so it's hard for me to say what I would prefer day to day. It would be a daily driver, but we have a family car as well. The ITS seems like a better day-to-day driver, but I have a nagging feeling that the CTR feels more special and worth the premium because of that.

 

[savagegeese]

That's fair, this is largely an emotional purchase rather than a practical one. I've never driven either an FL5 or DE5, only ridden in an FL5, so it's hard for me to say what I would prefer day to day. It would be a daily driver, but we have a family car as well. The ITS seems like a better day-to-day driver, but I have a nagging feeling that the CTR feels more special and worth the premium because of that.

Maybe clarify family without getting personal. As someone who does not get overly emotional about cars I will say this, having the Type R I didnt really care about it when I got it. But now I really do and being real it is a LOT of money. The red carpet and interior is an absolute bitch. I didnt put the red mats in because I went through red carpet in S2000 being destroyed. I put Extended black mats in. But even then I have stains around dead pedal on red carpet and I rarely drive it. From having people in car there is dye transfer on seats in spots and the kid part...

I am warning you, special is gonna wear off when you are constantly getting upset about stains etc. Maybe its just me, but for long term happiness something to chew on when decicing.

 

[Integra23]

Maybe clarify family without getting personal. As someone who does not get overly emotional about cars I will say this, having the Type R I didnt really care about it when I got it. But now I really do and being real it is a LOT of money. The red carpet and interior is an absolute bitch. I didnt put the red mats in because I went through red carpet in S2000 being destroyed. I put Extended black mats in. But even then I have stains around dead pedal on red carpet and I rarely drive it. From having people in car there is dye transfer on seats in spots and the kid part...

I am warning you, special is gonna wear off when you are constantly getting upset about stains etc. Maybe its just me, but for long term happiness something to chew on when decicing.

If you don't car about blocking out the red Tuxmats are a life saver.

 

[I used to vtec]

Maybe clarify family without getting personal. As someone who does not get overly emotional about cars I will say this, having the Type R I didnt really care about it when I got it. But now I really do and being real it is a LOT of money. The red carpet and interior is an absolute bitch. I didnt put the red mats in because I went through red carpet in S2000 being destroyed. I put Extended black mats in. But even then I have stains around dead pedal on red carpet and I rarely drive it. From having people in car there is dye transfer on seats in spots and the kid part...

I am warning you, special is gonna wear off when you are constantly getting upset about stains etc. Maybe its just me, but for long term happiness something to chew on when decicing.

All very fair points. I decided to stick with my ITS reservation and should have it sometime this year. I still think I slightly prefer the CTR, but with markups I don't feel I'm getting enough to justify 50k on it.

 

[sfedai0]

Maybe clarify family without getting personal. As someone who does not get overly emotional about cars I will say this, having the Type R I didnt really care about it when I got it. But now I really do and being real it is a LOT of money. The red carpet and interior is an absolute bitch. I didnt put the red mats in because I went through red carpet in S2000 being destroyed. I put Extended black mats in. But even then I have stains around dead pedal on red carpet and I rarely drive it. From having people in car there is dye transfer on seats in spots and the kid part...

I am warning you, special is gonna wear off when you are constantly getting upset about stains etc. Maybe its just me, but for long term happiness something to chew on when decicing.

Huh, I didnt think a comment like that would sway me but having owned a '01 ITR with JDM Recaros and '04 S2k, both as weekend queens, it was frankly tiresome keeping those cars mint.

Im now far less sentimental and neurotic. I want a great Honda product that harkens back to those special '90s era but I just want a daily driver that I dont have to baby too much. CTR seats and carpets getting slowly worn down would still irk me. Also, like the ITR, theft and vandalism will constantly lurk in my mind when owning a CTR. A ITS seems like a perfect middle ground for a DD for me.

 

[urbo73]

I get what you both are saying, but people are complaining the CTR is being priced and allocated like it's a $250,000 exotic car, then at the same time they are treating it as such. It's a Honda Civic, a very special one for sure, and one that I will do my best to keep clean for a long, long time. But I'm not garaging it to be driven on sunny Saturdays like it's a Ferrari. It's not. I'm pretty OCD about things, but this is my daily. Besides my wife's car, I won't be driving anything else, and I hardly ever drive hers or she mine. I did the same with my BMWs and Porsches. Driven all year round, winters too here in New England. All my cars have almost full PPF, ceramic coating, interior fabric protection, etc. And I clean them every few days. And they look damn good years later even when driven year round around here. I'm not going to worry about my CTR getting dirty or whatever. Carpets are easily washed or replaced if need be. I have one kid, and he's learned from an early age there's no eating or drinking in my car, to be clean with his shoes, etc. So I have about 0% stress and 100% fun driving it in all conditions. I realize 45-55K or whatever most are paying for it is no joke - it really is a lot. But it's not going to fall apart if you take care of it. That's just me though, and I realize everyone is different. But just offering a different perspective.

 

[Estoril4]

I get what you both are saying, but people are complaining the CTR is being priced and allocated like it's a $250,000 exotic car, then at the same time they are treating it as such. It's a Honda Civic, a very special one for sure, and one that I will do my best to keep clean for a long, long time. But I'm not garaging it to be driven on sunny Saturdays like it's a Ferrari. It's not. I'm pretty OCD about things, but this is my daily. Besides my wife's car, I won't be driving anything else, and I hardly ever drive hers or she mine. I did the same with my BMWs and Porsches. Driven all year round, winters too here in New England. All my cars have almost full PPF, ceramic coating, interior fabric protection, etc. And I clean them every few days. And they look damn good years later even when driven year round around here. I'm not going to worry about my CTR getting dirty or whatever. Carpets are easily washed or replaced if need be. I have one kid, and he's learned from an early age there's no eating or drinking in my car, to be clean with his shoes, etc. So I have about 0% stress and 100% fun driving it in all conditions. I realize 45-55K or whatever most are paying for it is no joke - it really is a lot. But it's not going to fall apart if you take care of it. That's just me though, and I realize everyone is different. But just offering a different perspective.

Well said, my outlook on cars has evolved so much over the years. I've realized that being hyper diligent on cleanliness and constantly avoiding situations that may cause damage on my daily was causing so much stress and anguish vs accepting that my cars are just objects for enjoyment that will take on some wear over the years and it has made me so much happier with my vehicles. I've also learned the skills to correct most scratches/chips so the option is always there to fix them but I've begun to see the inevitable marks and scratches as "personality" and character. Especially when you realize people who aren't OCD like us literally never notice minor things

 

[CTRifecta]

+1 on having to "worry" about keeping the daily driven CTR as mint as possible not only wears on you, but also costs a lot of money.

I've spent about 4k making sure I have PPF, extended tux mats, dream seat covers all to try to preserve the interior and exterior of the CTR. Now, I'd argue that I would have probably done PPF on the ITS regardless, but part of me would probably not care as much to keep it pristine if I was getting a straight MSRP deal. Because of the adm I had to pay (6k), I decided it's worth it to try to keep the CTR as protected and clean as possible. The other aspect is that, because the CTR is more special and harder to obtain, I'm more likely going to keep it far longer then my usual car cycle of every 3yrs..

That being said, the CTR is absolutely a joy to drive and a perfect daily which has further cemented my decision/justification, which I'm just not sure an ITS would do especially if I'm able to get one at MSRP.

Long winded way of saying, I think you can't go wrong with the ITS at sticker especially now watching the reviews and seeing how awesome it is.

 

[Rhorn]

+1 on having to "worry" about keeping the daily driven CTR as mint as possible not only wears on you, but also costs a lot of money.

I've spent about 4k making sure I have PPF, extended tux mats, dream seat covers all to try to preserve the interior and exterior of the CTR. Now, I'd argue that I would have probably done PPF on the ITS regardless, but part of me would probably not care as much to keep it pristine if I was getting a straight MSRP deal. Because of the adm I had to pay (6k), I decided it's worth it to try to keep the CTR as protected and clean as possible. The other aspect is that, because the CTR is more special and harder to obtain, I'm more likely going to keep it far longer then my usual car cycle of every 3yrs..

That being said, the CTR is absolutely a joy to drive and a perfect daily which has further cemented my decision/justification, which I'm just not sure an ITS would do especially if I'm able to get one at MSRP.

Long winded way of saying, I think you can't go wrong with the ITS at sticker especially now watching the reviews and seeing how awesome it is.

Yeah, I said that it really comes down to either just paying now or paying later. PPF and all of that stuff adds up quick. You make a good point because its around $6k for full PPF and a ceramic coating and thats excluding ADM. I kinda had that experience when I got my Mustang, I honestly didn't calculate how much it would cost for a full PFF, and I did a partial. Still got rock chips, and if you look closely you can see that the PPF is yellowing so my car looks two toned in some lighting, I've been thinking about taking it off but the thought of having to drop even more money to make my car look better is annoying.

Ceramic coating is nice too but my buddy got it done on his car and despite all of the benefits, it actually makes the care more dusty so it needs more frequent cleaning. I get that some people like to baby their cars and keep that showroom look but its really such a rabbit hole. I was like that with my Mustang at first, and then I stopped caring lol .There's a guy at my gym who has a S2000 CR and parks next to my CTR sometimes. 0 PPF and Ceramic coating, and you can see it has some miles clocked on it by just looking at it. Kinda refreshing to just not care about stuff lol.

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