2023 Civic Type R FL5 - Reviews Compilation (Articles + Videos) ✍🏻 🎥

[hammeredsole]

Were you able to rev it out to redline then? Fellow former GRC owner here. I'm only at ~300mi, haven't pushed the Civic past 5k but I'm already sorely missing the roar of that little 3 cylinder. I'm also missing the perfect throttle response. CTR's is reminiscent of my GR86 (not a good thing) where I never seem to get what I expect when I blip. I have found the Sport setting is most linear and predictable and am getting used to it.

Yea. I drove it only on north Georgia backroads at basically full duty cycle for roughly 3000 miles. While the “throttle” response itself was pretty ok, I felt that the turbo response had a slight delay every time on throttle, and then the drivetrain response was further delayed with a 47lb clutch/flywheel combo that had about 1.5” of rotational play. I absolutely hated that little POS. The engine response and tuning on the CTR is much better, and a clean drivetrain only sweetens the deal. GRC had so much flop, I just couldn’t stand it anymore. The CTR is a better car in every conceivable way.

The GRC was a learning experience for me, highlighting the bullshit YouTube hype that was pumped. Everyone acted like it was the greatest car ever, I just never got it. From the moment I stepped into it, I started getting buyers remorse. I beta’d the Syvecs AWD unit, and after exploring the limits of the parts bin rear PTU, my disenchantment became fully formed.

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[fredzy]

I'm watching your posts like a hawk Fred because we both have/had GRC's...

oh man, expectations! It's a bummer the time of year I got the Civic, otherwise I'd probably be past break-in by now and have a full enough picture to share my thoughts.

Yea. I drove it only on north Georgia backroads at basically full duty cycle for roughly 3000 miles. While the “throttle” response itself was pretty ok, I felt that the turbo response had a slight delay every time on throttle, and then the drivetrain response was further delayed with a 47lb clutch/flywheel combo that had about 1.5” of rotational play. I absolutely hated that little POS. The engine response and tuning on the CTR is much better, and a clean drivetrain only sweetens the deal. GRC had so much flop, I just couldn’t stand it anymore. The CTR is a better car in every conceivable way.

The GRC was a learning experience for me, highlighting the bullshit YouTube hype that was pumped. Everyone acted like it was the greatest car ever, I just never got it. From the moment I stepped into it, I started getting buyers remorse. I beta’d the Syvecs AWD unit, and after exploring the limits of the parts bin rear PTU, my disenchantment became fully formed.

I couldn't feel those flaws as acutely as you did but I totally got where you're coming from. GRC is more obviously a normal car that has been jacked up. It was a first try for a team new to this kind of car. (GR Yaris is pretty different and was sorta done in parallel.) CTR comes from 25 years of evolution. The fact that only the most discerning enthusiasts can pick up on that I'd say is a testament to how well they did.

It reminds me of a video I watched a little after the 1st gen BRZ/86 came out, where a renowned Honda tuner (like Spoon, but I don't think it was Spoon?) bought one to explore it in comparison to the S2000. They said something like "we had hoped that Toyota would take this seriously as a competitor to the S2000. We were disappointed by what we found" over shots of their 86 all torn apart, its ho-hum suspension bits on display. Damning, but it didn't stop people from racing the wheels off of them.

If anyone here knows of that video and can produce it, please share!

OMG I found it, just like that. Man is the internet weird. It was Spoon.

 

[hammeredsole]

oh man, expectations! It's a bummer the time of year I got the Civic, otherwise I'd probably be past break-in by now and have a full enough picture to share my thoughts.


I couldn't feel those flaws as acutely as you did but I totally got where you're coming from. GRC is more obviously a normal car that has been jacked up. It was a first try for a team new to this kind of car. (GR Yaris is pretty different and was sorta done in parallel.) CTR comes from 25 years of evolution. The fact that only the most discerning enthusiasts can pick up on that I'd say is a testament to how well they did.

It reminds me of a video I watched a little after the 1st gen BRZ/86 came out, where a renowned Honda tuner (like Spoon, but I don't think it was Spoon?) bought one to explore it in comparison to the S2000. They said something like "we had hoped that Toyota would take this seriously as a competitor to the S2000. We were disappointed by what we found" over shots of their 86 all torn apart, its ho-hum suspension bits on display. Damning, but it didn't stop people from racing the wheels off of them.

If anyone here knows of that video and can produce it, please share!

OMG I found it, just like that. Man is the internet weird. It was Spoon.

That sporty car sentiment really sums up my experience with the GRC. I could go on for a long time about all the short comings, which I've done quite a few times, but I think I'll leave it at that. Sporty car, not a sports car.

 

[TypeRD]

While disappointing, this was still instructive. I know the wing was wind-tunnel tested by Honda, so i wonder what it was optimized for?

One thing that stood out to me... the G-force indicator for the CTR run.

I can understand the conclusion that wind drag is what holds the CTR back from hitting 150 mph quicker than tested. As the article points out, it truly is the gear ratios.

They tested a pristine first gen NSX a few years ago. Believe it or not, the NSX has more wind drag than the FL5. I know. Hard to believe, right? Nonetheless, the NSX hits 150 mph quicker than the FL5 does, despite it having less power and more drag. Note their curb weights are VERY comparable to each other too.

 

[Clark_Kent]

That sporty car sentiment really sums up my experience with the GRC. I could go on for a long time about all the short comings, which I've done quite a few times, but I think I'll leave it at that. Sporty car, not a sports car.

I'm not discounting your experience at all, but you're the first person (including reviews) who has absolutely trashed the GRC so your commentary is surprising. It seems from talking to a few owners and the reviews (articles and videos), the GRC is a really good (not great, not perfect) performance car for $38K (Core w/ Performance Package). The price point is helpful context. I wouldn't expect a sub $40K car to be well sorted and a true driver's car. It will undoubtedly have it's drawbacks. It's about $8K cheaper than the FL5 which is a sizeable delta given the relatively low MSRPs of both cars. If Toyota continues to produce the GRC, I would like to think it will evolve over time for the better.

 

[hammeredsole]

I can understand the conclusion that wind drag is what holds the CTR back from hitting 150 mph quicker than tested. As the article points out, it truly is the gear ratios.

They tested a pristine first gen NSX a few years ago. Believe it or not, the NSX has more wind drag than the FL5. I know. Hard to believe, right? Nonetheless, the NSX hits 150 mph quicker than the FL5 does, despite it having less power and more drag. Note their curb weights are VERY comparable to each other too.

The NSX might have a higher Cd, but it has less frontal area. The Cd # is useless without frontal area, it’s like comparing HP without considering weight.

 

[TypeRD]

The NSX might have a higher Cd, but it has less frontal area. The Cd # is useless without frontal area, it’s like comparing HP without considering weight.

Agree the data is incomplete. But Cd is the total drag of the vehicle and total drag is less on the FL5 despite where/when the most drag is occurs, right? It would definitely be cool and interesting to see where/when/how much drag occurs as the vehicles climb to 150 mph. Drag is indeed a dynamic factor.

Note, it has been said before that the FL5’s gear ratios are engineered less toward straight-line speed, which makes sense. This car is designed for power and quickness thru the curves. Given the info we have, I still think it’s primarily the gearing and secondarily drag, that prevents the sprint to 150 mph to be quicker than tested. I’m not an engineer for Honda, so I obviously don’t have the true answer, though.

 

[hammeredsole]

Agree the data is incomplete. But Cd is the total drag of the vehicle and total drag is less on the FL5 despite where/when the most drag is occurs, right? It would definitely be cool and interesting to see where/when/how much drag occurs as the vehicles climb to 150 mph. Drag is indeed a dynamic factor.

Note, it has been said before that the FL5’s gear ratios are engineered less toward straight-line speed, which makes sense. This car is designed for power and quickness thru the curves. Given the info we have, I still think it’s primarily the gearing and secondarily drag, that prevents the sprint to 150 mph to be quicker than tested. I’m not an engineer for Honda, so I obviously don’t have the true answer, though.

Coefficient of drag is the drag force / frontal area, in simple terms. It is a determination of the efficiency of the shape, but does not give Fd (force of drag). While it’s a good indicator of overall efficiency of shape, it’s pretty irrelevant without knowing frontal area. It’s been used for decades in car magazines, but in a somewhat misleading metric. A totally accurate 1/8 replica of an NSX will still have a Cd of 0.32, but will have a drastically lower Fd because it’s physically smaller.

 

[TypeRD]

@hammeredsole Thanks for the info! That makes much more sense to me now. Cd is definitely an incomplete (and confusing) metric…and it’s weird that car mags use it with no corresponding descriptors or relationships to other metrics. Even a crude 3D scan could capture the total frontal area of the car, which a reader could then use to correlate the Cd to and draw a more educated conclusion about.

 

[hammeredsole]

I'm not discounting your experience at all, but you're the first person (including reviews) who has absolutely trashed the GRC so your commentary is surprising. It seems from talking to a few owners and the reviews (articles and videos), the GRC is a really good (not great, not perfect) performance car for $38K (Core w/ Performance Package). The price point is helpful context. I wouldn't expect a sub $40K car to be well sorted and a true driver's car. It will undoubtedly have it's drawbacks. It's about $8K cheaper than the FL5 which is a sizeable delta given the relatively low MSRPs of both cars. If Toyota continues to produce the GRC, I would like to think it will evolve over time for the better.

I by no means intend to be obstinate, but the GRC is not even in the same class as the CTR, imho. The 3 cylinder engine is way too out of balance to make a good road engine without significant efforts to reduce the torsional and vibrational frequencies to the driveline and the chassis, and was the source of *much* of my frustration. Any attempt to increase the tightness is going to result in unacceptable levels of NVH and driveline stress, which is why the GRC comes with sillyputty stretch armstrong engine mounts and a sloppy and extremely heavy dual mass flywheel. The flywheel, once noticed, makes for sloppy shifting and has a giant inertial effect on the acceleration and deceleration characteristics of the car, to a level I found unacceptable in a "performance" car. Additionally, the Aisin BG6 transmission's maximum torque rating is not far off from what the engine is already making, which is why so many upgraded GRY go to a dogbox or sequential transmission. The effort and cost of building a GRC into valid competition of the CTR, would be an order of magnitudes of the FK8/FL5, "AWD" be damned.

Edit: This is all my opinion based on experience with a GRC I owned, modded and researched. Time will tell whether I'm right, or just a raving lunatic.

 

[007]

I've always felt the GRC was kind of an afterthought. I got to drive a colleague's GRC last month, and it's nothing like my GR Yaris. It's way heavier – that extra ~400 lbs really makes a difference. It's got more power, but somehow it doesn't feel as good to drive. It's not as quick to react, and it just doesn't feel as tight. My GR Yaris, on the other hand, is like a little rocket – it's light and fun to throw around.

I'm curious to see how the new FL5 stacks up. I think the Honda might handle corners better, but it'll probably feel bigger and not as lively. I'm going to drive them both one after the other before I decide for sure. For me, the GR Yaris is something truly special – it's more than just the numbers. It's a keeper. The only thing better would be a GRMN. The GR Yaris just feels right, especially with its old-school gauges and a gearbox that feels spot on. Overall, the GRY really reminds me of my e46 M3 – it's got that mechanical, hands-on kind of feel. Can't wait to see if the new Type R gives me the same vibe.

 

[hammeredsole]

I've always felt the GRC was kind of an afterthought. I got to drive a colleague's GRC last month, and it's nothing like my GR Yaris. It's way heavier – that extra ~400 lbs really makes a difference. It's got more power, but somehow it doesn't feel as good to drive. It's not as quick to react, and it just doesn't feel as tight. My GR Yaris, on the other hand, is like a little rocket – it's light and fun to throw around.

I'm curious to see how the new FL5 stacks up. I think the Honda might handle corners better, but it'll probably feel bigger and not as lively. I'm going to drive them both one after the other before I decide for sure. For me, the GR Yaris is something truly special – it's more than just the numbers. It's a keeper. The only thing better would be a GRMN. The GR Yaris just feels right, especially with its old-school gauges and a gearbox that feels spot on. Overall, the GRY really reminds me of my e46 M3 – it's got that mechanical, hands-on kind of feel. Can't wait to see if the new Type R gives me the same vibe.

It's because the GRY was actually developed as it's own project. It IS special. They tried with the GRC, but as you said, 400lbs is massive, and it's even 100lbs more than the FL5. You won't be disappointed with the FL5.

 

[TDC50]

ONE YEAR LATER owner review of the FL5.

It was purchased with the goal of having a fun, year round daily to occasionally haul a family of four and keep for at least 4-6 years.

Stats thus far
Mileage: ~ 8500
Service: (4) engine oil changes, full brake fluid flush with better quality Motul 600

Reliability: Knock on wood zero issues besides the driver seat frame recall since mine is a very early VIN

Positives

• Shift feel: still feels sharp and precise. Remains the best feeling manual with exception of my buddies S2000 with a short shifter kit. Shift from 1-2 is the least favorite, it doesn’t like to be hurried but still feels precise and clean. Every other gear allows for very quick shifts if needed.
• Clutch: bite point remains the same as new and is extremely easy to modulate
• Tons of passenger and cargo space in this car. Haven’t had any issues fitting whatever I needed
• Looks: I still do the ‘look back’ as I walk away from the car. Typically a good indicator my enthusiasm level for a car remains strong
• Front seats: haven’t worn and still are very supportive and comfortable
• Fuel economy: considering the occasional spirited driving I am averaging 26mpg since I purchased the car! Driving is about 60% around town and 40% highway by time (hours in the car). By miles it’s closer to the reverse, 60% highway and 40% town.
• Interior hardware: All interior bits and pieces are holding up and look like new. The car is cleaned often and kept free of clutter so that helps.

Negatives:

• Engine sound: a little harsh sounding but such is life with a 4-cylinder without balance shafts.
• Sport mode: I didn’t think I would ever use it and sure enough, I haven’t. It’s either Individual mode with suspension set at comfort or +R mode.
• Back Up Camera: yeah it kind of sucks but better than nothing
• Pedal spacing: not great for those who want to heel/toe

Mods that have been a major plus:

• Full PPF: keeps the paint well protected and swirl free since the PPF self heals from any light scratches
• Dream seat covers: these slip on and off easily and have saved my front passenger seat from an apple juice spill
• Honda accessory cargo and rear seat back protectors: cargo area is staying nice and clean
• Weather tech floor liners: good coverage except for the dead pedal area. There I use a low tack clear film to prevent the carpet from getting dirty. They are easy to clean and don’t get in the way of the pedals or foot heel/toe work.
• SUMA side view mirrors: curved anti-glare allows for great visibility and reflected headlights from behind me don’t blind me anymore.
• Acuity pedal spacer: now I can finally properly heel/toe for size 10-11 foot. Before I had to uncomfortably strain to reach from brake to accelerator
• 18” wheels and tires: super helpful for when a pothole couldn’t be avoided.
• H&R lowering springs: a little more caution is needed at my parents driveway but the car looks so much better. They aren’t super low like the Swift’s and are very usable for daily work. No difference felt in ride or handling

Original initial review after taking delivery:
https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/2023-civic-type-r-fl5-reviews-compilation-articles-videos--.51147/post-845984

 

[s2kdriver80]

 

[JBO]

Good written review at my home track, some great pics too
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-reviews/2024-honda-civic-type-r-review

And the same location with a (slow) video and written article
https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2024-honda-civic-type-r-review-track-test/

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