CIVICXI *NOVICE* Track Thread!

[DustyDan]

I knew you would like track days. So when’s the next track day?

I’m hooked.

I’m eyeing up that TNIA August 7th date at Lime Rock. I like that it was only $260 for Track Night In America events, compared to $560 for an instructed day or $400 not instructed with SCDA. Felt like good value paying less than half and getting one less session. Which I’m fine with during summer heat and not enough cooling mods to cope yet. It’s closer to me than NJMP too so I’ll be keeping an eye on those events.

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[MooMoo]

I really recommend going to a non TNIA and getting an instructor, you learn so much its worth the extra money. Also you get way more seat time. Lime Rock is very expensive though, $400 and up now but some clubs you get 5 sessions which is great.

I think its great that track night is "cheap" but its crazy to me that they let people out on track with no instruction. There is so much to learn, looking ahead, driving and paying attention to flaggers, and so much more. My favorite track days were in novice with an instructor, when you have a good one its such a good day out and just learn so much. There is someone to tell you about your bad habits and how to correct them, imo worth the extra $200.

 

[DustyDan]

I should clarify, I totally agree @MooMoo

People shouldn’t be on track without any in car instruction at speed. That was another reason I was glad I didn’t enter novice for this event. Not sure why they allow that, seems pretty dangerous to allow multiple people who have never been instructed to go as fast as they want around others in the same category. I wouldn’t advise that to anyone looking to get into track days!

However, I have been instructed in the past and I definitely not foregoing it in the future. But there is value to being in the car alone, learning the nuances and limits of the car, again as long as you know what you are doing with safety, flaggers etc which only comes with an experienced instructor showing you those things!

Also, this isn’t a one size fits all. I would imagine there are people out there who are more advanced or comfortable and fine to drive uninstructed relatively quickly and then there are people who probably shouldn’t be driving uninstructed after multiple days of instruction (I’ve seen plenty of these in novice class). My instructor was clear I was okay to drive alone next event.

 

[J_D]

I only do HPDE events with instructors in my FL5. There are much cheaper events near me (think $75 CAD) for unlimited lapping evenings...but I don't trust it.

 

[PointByPatrol]

This could serve as a super helpful demonstration of "slow is smooth and smooth is fast". It's often really difficult as a newer driver to visualize what your HPDE instructor means. It was definitely lost on me when I was new to the track, and I paid a huge price! Here's to hoping this helps ramp up your driving skills, and avoid bad habits!

 

[kineticstate]

Hey hey new boot goofin over here! Local to VA and excited to see so many folks in here creating community. I’m brand new to track days and signed up for HPDE in May with TSCC. I started breathing heavy and everything. My goal now is to immerse myself in the waters of lake Honda and absorb some knowledge. Would love to connect with an instructor before the event! Looking at autocross as well

Anyways I just read this entire novice track thread… and now I have more questions than when I started. Which I guess means it worked. I have a very long Notion draft of bullet point from all 21 pages and videos to boot. I’ve been traveling all day and had nothing better to do!

Basic safety, tools + better brake fluid (Castrol-check check), common sense and a willingness to learn seem like the top common denominators. Though gravity keeps a few items in orbit—like brake pads. I daily the car so I’m not trying to have my Type R pulling up to Chick-fil-A sounding like a city bus. Looks like CSG CP is the unicorn but you gotta pay the cost to be the BAWS

EBC RPX / Paragon seems like a good, less expensive option… but then you hear about deposits/judder and it’s like… okay… what is that? Is that the pad? Is that the rotor? Is that me being an idiot and stopping with hot brakes and standing on the pedal like I’m waiting at a railroad crossing? How would one combat that? I know a few said they didn’t have those issues

Brings us to TIRES: I get the “run stock tires first so 200TW doesn’t hide bad habits” take, but what bad habits are we actually talking about? If I’m going in focused on learning line/braking/smoothness and not chasing times, does 200TW still mess with that? OEM tires don’t seem like they hold up great either.

My initial thought before was go 18s with big V730/RS4 and learn. I’m not trying to chase lap times… I’m just trying to not cook something and ruin a day.

I guess the “principle” I’m trying to follow is: eliminate dumb failure points before I even show up. I don’t need to be fast, I just want to focus more on my inputs & honestly the research/build part is half the fun for me. This reminds me of building my PC… I spent more time researching parts than actually gaming (I’ll beat baldurs gate someday) …


I’ll take any and all advice, drop some good videos for learning if you have any. Happy to be a part of the forum!

 

[MooMoo]

Hey hey new boot goofin over here! Local to VA and excited to see so many folks in here creating community. I’m brand new to track days and signed up for HPDE in May with TSCC. I started breathing heavy and everything. My goal now is to immerse myself in the waters of lake Honda and absorb some knowledge. Would love to connect with an instructor before the event! Looking at autocross as well

Anyways I just read this entire novice track thread… and now I have more questions than when I started. Which I guess means it worked. I have a very long Notion draft of bullet point from all 21 pages and videos to boot. I’ve been traveling all day and had nothing better to do!

Basic safety, tools + better brake fluid (Castrol-check check), common sense and a willingness to learn seem like the top common denominators. Though gravity keeps a few items in orbit—like brake pads. I daily the car so I’m not trying to have my Type R pulling up to Chick-fil-A sounding like a city bus. Looks like CSG CP is the unicorn but you gotta pay the cost to be the BAWS

EBC RPX / Paragon seems like a good, less expensive option… but then you hear about deposits/judder and it’s like… okay… what is that? Is that the pad? Is that the rotor? Is that me being an idiot and stopping with hot brakes and standing on the pedal like I’m waiting at a railroad crossing? How would one combat that? I know a few said they didn’t have those issues

Brings us to TIRES: I get the “run stock tires first so 200TW doesn’t hide bad habits” take, but what bad habits are we actually talking about? If I’m going in focused on learning line/braking/smoothness and not chasing times, does 200TW still mess with that? OEM tires don’t seem like they hold up great either.

My initial thought before was go 18s with big V730/RS4 and learn. I’m not trying to chase lap times… I’m just trying to not cook something and ruin a day.

I guess the “principle” I’m trying to follow is: eliminate dumb failure points before I even show up. I don’t need to be fast, I just want to focus more on my inputs & honestly the research/build part is half the fun for me. This reminds me of building my PC… I spent more time researching parts than actually gaming (I’ll beat baldurs gate someday) …


I’ll take any and all advice, drop some good videos for learning if you have any. Happy to be a part of the forum!

The pad transfers to the rotor unevenly so when you brake the surface is uneven so it will cause pulsation. It can be felt when braking but in my case I have even felt it while driving. Actually happened at VIR event last year where at about 100mph my car would start vibrating without even touching the brakes, it was strange. But more common is to happen when you are braking the car shakes like crazy and does not feel very confidence inspiring.
Probably mentioned in the thread but make sure you bed the HELL out of the pads and try not to drag the brakes coming into the paddock and of course no ebrake, put car in gear and turn it off. Your instructor will hopefully remind you of this.

Tires are like the oil weight threads here lol, everyone got different opinions. To me I say just roll with the ps4s because if thats what you have then use them up but I do agree to some point that using gripper tires can hide bad habits, you just can do more mistakes without the car telling you. Now I don't think its a problem to do 200tw tires but I would never sugest doing fast 200tw right away, keep the RE71rs at home for the firs few track days, however RS4s absolutely are great tires for a HPDE newcomer. They are not that grippy and they last and last. Also if you don't have camber they will hold up really good and WAY better than ps4s. Also can look at continental ECFs.

1st track day will be amazing, you are going to love it. I still remember my first day, was like one of the most fun days I had had in my adult life lol. Also the May type R day will be amazing, tons of good people and so much good advice and camaraderie.

 

[PointByPatrol]

Hey hey new boot goofin over here! Local to VA and excited to see so many folks in here creating community. I’m brand new to track days and signed up for HPDE in May with TSCC. I started breathing heavy and everything. My goal now is to immerse myself in the waters of lake Honda and absorb some knowledge. Would love to connect with an instructor before the event! Looking at autocross as well

Anyways I just read this entire novice track thread… and now I have more questions than when I started. Which I guess means it worked. I have a very long Notion draft of bullet point from all 21 pages and videos to boot. I’ve been traveling all day and had nothing better to do!

Basic safety, tools + better brake fluid (Castrol-check check), common sense and a willingness to learn seem like the top common denominators. Though gravity keeps a few items in orbit—like brake pads. I daily the car so I’m not trying to have my Type R pulling up to Chick-fil-A sounding like a city bus. Looks like CSG CP is the unicorn but you gotta pay the cost to be the BAWS

EBC RPX / Paragon seems like a good, less expensive option… but then you hear about deposits/judder and it’s like… okay… what is that? Is that the pad? Is that the rotor? Is that me being an idiot and stopping with hot brakes and standing on the pedal like I’m waiting at a railroad crossing? How would one combat that? I know a few said they didn’t have those issues

Brings us to TIRES: I get the “run stock tires first so 200TW doesn’t hide bad habits” take, but what bad habits are we actually talking about? If I’m going in focused on learning line/braking/smoothness and not chasing times, does 200TW still mess with that? OEM tires don’t seem like they hold up great either.

My initial thought before was go 18s with big V730/RS4 and learn. I’m not trying to chase lap times… I’m just trying to not cook something and ruin a day.

I guess the “principle” I’m trying to follow is: eliminate dumb failure points before I even show up. I don’t need to be fast, I just want to focus more on my inputs & honestly the research/build part is half the fun for me. This reminds me of building my PC… I spent more time researching parts than actually gaming (I’ll beat baldurs gate someday) …


I’ll take any and all advice, drop some good videos for learning if you have any. Happy to be a part of the forum!

You can definitely rock the PS4's for the first event because you likely won't be going fast enough to heat soak them. Really what we mean by "hiding mistakes" is that a 200tw or less tire will usually just "do" what you tell it to at a slower pace, and you'll think that you did something right because you got away with it, but once you get faster and faster the transition from grip to slip becomes smaller and smaller. If you put the car in a precarious situation, and if you break loose on 200tw tires its significantly harder to get the car back because you are going faster, and likely carrying more g-force. PS4's, as much as I hate them, offer more audible warning when you're misbehaving and can help guide you to correct your mistakes at a slower pace before jumping up to a faster pace. I hope what I said here makes sense.

Caveat to what I said above:
I think running on 18's is smart because you get a taller side wall, and more protection from curbing. I chewed the crap out of one of my stock 19's at VIR the very first time I took the car to the track because the tires on the 19's are like rubber bands. So lets be honest with ourselves, we open up our wallets to buy some nice 18's, and we're deciding what tire to put on them....there is likely ZERO chance that you're going to want to spend the money for a fresh set of PS4's....I sure as shit wouldn't....why? Because these are now my track wheel/tires, and PS4's are pretty darn expensive for a tire that doesn't perform that great on track! So should you decide to purchase some 18's....then what tires should you run??? Me personally....V730'S or Conti ECF's.

These two different "trains of thought" should be decided solely on how much you're willing to spend for your first track day. Do you want to do it on a budget to see if this is the type of sport that you might actually be interested in? Or, are you convinced that you will like it, and know that you will 100% be back for more?


Brake pads:

SR11's and R5's can cause judder. I felt SR11's do it on a friends car just this past weekend. I felt R5's do it on Paulo's car at the track. Me personally, I've never had an issue when transitioning from stock pads to R5's. I've driven a car with CSG's and they felt amazing. I also like Ferodo DS3.12's.

How do the pads relate to the tires?

Should you choose to run on PS4's, I would not venture past an R5, in fact....I'd probably just use the stock pads. The reasoning here is that you don't want a pad compound that can out-brake the capability of your tires.

Should you choose a 200TW- Then rock R5's, SR11's, CSG's or DS3.12's! The tires can handle it!

 

[MooMoo]

I was on SR11s actually, I blame the R5s though that left me deposits on my first track day of the type R and still never fully have been ok after. I think either was a bedding issue from me or using R3 out back and the fronts have to do more work and R5 not up to snuff or what.

SR11s are fine now though and I really like em. No bedding is nice but I dunno if I would rec em for someone thats new on track, the first bite is kinda crazy.

 

[TypeRbuilder]

This from Reed Kryder. I met him at Nelson Ledges racecourse a few years ago. Something he said in the driver meeting: "No fear". And it's true....

http://www.kryderacing.com/krhome.pdf Click on HOW TO LEARN A TRACK Great read!!

 

[DustyDan]

Could use some help as to what needs to be changed going into a second season. Other than ensuring the obvious have sufficient life left i.e. tires, pads, engine oil, what should we be changing out yearly to prep for a new season? I planned to change:

Engine oil
Transmission Fluid
Brake Fluid (Once a year since I used SRF)
At what MM do I swap out rotors?

I understand this is relative to the amount of track days you do in a year and some of these things may need to be done more often if you are going every weekend. But for the novice thread I figure assume we did less than 5 tracks days, what must you swap to prep for the following season? What am I missing?

 

[Rexpelagi]

Could use some help as to what needs to be changed going into a second season. Other than ensuring the obvious have sufficient life left i.e. tires, pads, engine oil, what should we be changing out yearly to prep for a new season? I planned to change:

Engine oil
Transmission Fluid
Brake Fluid (Once a year since I used SRF)
At what MM do I swap out rotors?

I understand this is relative to the amount of track days you do in a year and some of these things may need to be done more often if you are going every weekend. But for the novice thread I figure assume we did less than 5 tracks days, what must you swap to prep for the following season? What am I missing?

I think your list should be good - for rotors I've never swapped out a set of rotors on a car I track due to wear from a thickness perspective (although there should be an official minimum thickness stamped somewhere on the rotors, and I've seen the thickness posted here before) - I always change them due to cracking. I try to get as much life out of them as I can, and monitor for cracks propagating to the OD - once I see longer cracks start to form, or anything through the disc thickness/on the OD I replace them (and I always bring spare rotors to the track so I can change them on-site in the event of an issue).

It would probably be good to monitor the front Brembo dust boots/seals as the calipers can start to leak with heavy track use, but if you are just starting out that shouldn't be a big concern.

 

[PointByPatrol]

Could use some help as to what needs to be changed going into a second season. Other than ensuring the obvious have sufficient life left i.e. tires, pads, engine oil, what should we be changing out yearly to prep for a new season? I planned to change:

Engine oil
Transmission Fluid
Brake Fluid (Once a year since I used SRF)
At what MM do I swap out rotors?

I understand this is relative to the amount of track days you do in a year and some of these things may need to be done more often if you are going every weekend. But for the novice thread I figure assume we did less than 5 tracks days, what must you swap to prep for the following season? What am I missing?

This should help too. Applies to the factory rotors as well, and explains what to look for when replacing deciding to replace rotors.

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog/when-is-it-time-to-replace-my-iron-discs

 

[DustyDan]

@Rexpelagi & @PointByPatrol knew I could count on you guys, appreciate it. What about spark plugs, are those necessary to do each after each season in prep for the next? And how about valve clearances? the standard interval at 30k ok still?

 

[PointByPatrol]

@Rexpelagi & @PointByPatrol knew I could count on you guys, appreciate it. What about spark plugs, are those necessary to do each after each season in prep for the next? And how about valve clearances? the standard interval at 30k ok still?

I have 15k on my car currently and plan to swap my spark plugs before the new season opens. Haven’t had any issues, but I just do it out of caution. The valves can wait since I swapped my valve cover out last year. I’m in no rush to get back down in there anytime soon.

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