The FL5 Dealer ADM Markup Thread

[jashton]

Food for thought.

Whats interesting on the ADM topic is people are not willing to do the work to find an MSRP deal or lower ADM - However, they are willing to compromise by buying a completely different car. What’s the value on settling?

For me, there’s no comparable car since I wouldn’t buy a GR Corolla, Golf R, or Elantra N. I’m coming from a GT350R and wanted something that looks good, fits the family, and can handle track duties without adding a bunch of different cooling upgrades. Looks are subjective but are a huge part of my decision making.

If you buy almost any other vehicle at MSRP, that isn’t limited in production, you’re going to take a loss that is similar to a small ADM on the back end. IE: 3-5k or possibly more.

If you plan to keep the car, it’s worth putting the extra work in. I’ve found ALL manufacturers have the exact same problem with speciality cars and NONE of them care about your loyalty, purchase history, or any stories for that matter. That comes down to the dealer and in Florida they DGAF about the consumer.

I’ve dealt with the same issues with Ford, Honda, Chevrolet and Toyota. They are all the same. It’s a huge turnoff with every brand.

There’s a big chance things continue to turn around within the next year plus and dealers will be begging for business. The issue is the lower production cars are going to always command a premium to other vehicles. That premium could be buying it at MSRP while another vehicle is 5-8k under.

I personally put a huge value on color and that made my search even more difficult. I wouldn’t take a color I didn’t want for MSRP and that limited my search even more. The Type R fortunately doesn’t look bad in any color IMO, but there was a value to get exactly what I wanted.

I also sold my car first, despite not needing to, which was over a 5k swing - even with tax savings. Trades almost always break a deal for me so is something else you can consider exploring. This is obviously tougher if you only have one vehicle.

My point is to be patient and put in some work if you want the car. It’s very unlikely that somebody is going to drop one in your lap for MSRP with current demand.

Buying something else isn’t going to be the same as buying the Type R. There’s a reason you see guys that are putting these in their garage next to some very high end vehicles or in my case “downgrading” from a GT350R and M2 Competition.

To add some further insight, there are plenty of dealers sitting on allocations at 10k over. With the third wave incoming, things are only going to get better.

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[Tickle]

Food for thought.

Whats interesting on the ADM topic is people are not willing to do the work to find an MSRP deal or lower ADM - However, they are willing to compromise by buying a completely different car. What’s the value on settling?

For me, there’s no comparable car since I wouldn’t buy a GR Corolla, Golf R, or Elantra N. I’m coming from a GT350R and wanted something that looks good, fits the family, and can handle track duties without adding a bunch of different cooling upgrades. Looks are subjective but are a huge part of my decision making.

If you buy almost any other vehicle at MSRP, that isn’t limited in production, you’re going to take a loss that is similar to a small ADM on the back end. IE: 3-5k or possibly more.

If you plan to keep the car, it’s worth putting the extra work in. I’ve found ALL manufacturers have the exact same problem with speciality cars and NONE of them care about your loyalty, purchase history, or any stories for that matter. That comes down to the dealer and in Florida they DGAF about the consumer.

I’ve dealt with the same issues with Ford, Honda, Chevrolet and Toyota. They are all the same. It’s a huge turnoff with every brand.

There’s a big chance things continue to turn around within the next year plus and dealers will be begging for business. The issue is the lower production cars are going to always command a premium to other vehicles. That premium could be buying it at MSRP while another vehicle is 5-8k under.

I personally put a huge value on color and that made my search even more difficult. I wouldn’t take a color I didn’t want for MSRP and that limited my search even more. The Type R fortunately doesn’t look bad in any color IMO, but there was a value to get exactly what I wanted.

I also sold my car first, despite not needing to, which was over a 5k swing - even with tax savings. Trades almost always break a deal for me so is something else you can consider exploring. This is obviously tougher if you only have one vehicle.

My point is to be patient and put in some work if you want the car. It’s very unlikely that somebody is going to drop one in your lap for MSRP with current demand.

Buying something else isn’t going to be the same as buying the Type R. There’s a reason you see guys that are putting these in their garage next to some very high end vehicles or in my case “downgrading” from a GT350R and M2 Competition.

To add some further insight, there are plenty of dealers sitting on allocations at 10k over. With the third wave incoming, things are only going to get better.

Putting in the work to find this deal costs time. How I value that time and money very well maybe different than how you do.

For every person who isn't willing to bend to another make or car there is someone else who is.

Looking at losing 3-5k on a new car purchase only matters if you are parting ways with a vehicle you just purchased. It's hard for me to follow your logic with that.

The drop in value is because a dealer pays X for a vehicle. For you to sell it back to a dealer... It has to make sense for the dealer to buy it. For you to private sell the vehicle, it has to make sense to the buyer to to pay what you want. What is their incentive if they can get it from a dealer?

 

[jashton]

Putting in the work to find this deal costs time. How I value that time and money very well maybe different than how you do.

For every person who isn't willing to bend to another make or car there is someone else who is.

Looking at losing 3-5k on a new car purchase only matters if you are parting ways with a vehicle you just purchased. It's hard for me to follow your logic with that.

The drop in value is because a dealer pays X for a vehicle. For you to sell it back to a dealer... It has to make sense for the dealer to buy it. For you to private sell the vehicle, it has to make sense to the buyer to to pay what you want. What is their incentive if they can get it from a dealer?

I didn’t say otherwise, if your time is more valuable paying a small ADM shouldn’t matter at all. You can’t have it both ways. I could’ve paid a 20k ADM, but worked for the number I wanted to pay. My time is worth more than haggling with dealers, but I enjoy the hunt and wanted the car at what I felt was a fair price.

If you’re willing to “bend” to another vehicle then you don’t want the car enough or lack patience is my point. Again, any specialty limited production vehicle is going to command a premium vs other vehicles. This is never going to change.

Losing 3-5k applies whenever you sell that vehicle - the only time it wouldn’t is if you kept the car forever. If you purchase a brand new BMW M2 and drive that car 15,000 miles and sell it in 5 years you are going to take a much smaller loss than buying a normal 2 or 3 series in the identical scenario. This is almost always the case with any high demand, low production vehicle that people want.

I have no idea what you are saying in your last paragraph.

 

[Rhorn]

Food for thought.

Whats interesting on the ADM topic is people are not willing to do the work to find an MSRP deal or lower ADM - However, they are willing to compromise by buying a completely different car. What’s the value on settling?

For me, there’s no comparable car since I wouldn’t buy a GR Corolla, Golf R, or Elantra N. I’m coming from a GT350R and wanted something that looks good, fits the family, and can handle track duties without adding a bunch of different cooling upgrades. Looks are subjective but are a huge part of my decision making.

I wouldn't say that. there are people who still are on the hunt that aren't willing to compromise. I agree with your comment about downgrading, as I was in the same situation. The FK8 honestly wasn't even on my radar when I was shopping around for a GT350. I only started seriously considering getting one afterwards to replace my daily driver. Even with a $20k markup there wasn't anything that interested me, the cars that I really wanted like a GT500, M5, E63, or 718 GT4 are all +$100k. Looks are subjective and they played into my decision as well and the FL5 CTR was the perfect option. When I saw the prototype it got me hyped and I knew thats the car I wanted to get next.

I imagine those or at least the majority of those who buy a completely different car come at it from a different perspective. They are simply looking to upgrade, and tbh I don't blame them. Getting a C7 or Hellcat/ZL1/Mustang all are enticing options considering they are all within the budget of the CTR (with markups), and can offer a more fun experiecne. Like I said, I wasn't even considering getting a CTR when I wanted to upgrade. I never was a Honda Fanboy, always was a muscle car guy

 

[CTRifecta]

What type of accessories do people even get for 9k? All I'm aware of is the 5k CF wing, everything else is like $2-500

 

[daazn]

What type of accessories do people even get for 9k? All I'm aware of is the 5k CF wing, everything else is like $2-500

CF wing is 2k
Forged wheels are 3k

Idk how they got up to 9k of accs

 

[AspecR]

What type of accessories do people even get for 9k? All I'm aware of is the 5k CF wing, everything else is like $2-500

Probably marked up the accessories

 

[Dallman]

Performance package 5,377, interior package 1,206, seat back protectors 133, body side molding 296, door edge guards 299, trunk tray 199, wheel locks 149, all weather mats 199, rear bumper protector 108.50.

Now the stuff that are over priced or not needed, nitrogen 199, tinted windows 699, lumar door cups 299. The nitrogen, lumar door cups are over priced by 450. The tinted windows should be about 400 less. So they got over on me for about 850. all of the other parts are the installed price and i get the parts taken off. So I'll end up with a set of winter and summer tires. All in all i'm good with this. My first car when I was 16 was a 1964 GTO. I turned 70 so now i'm not much for hesitation. The only reason I'm moving into a newer type r for the safety features the 2019 doesen't.

 

[Mathman]

Made an account because I inquired about a local Type R.
Legends Honda, Kansas City,KS.
5k markup, BUT raffle system and the car will sit at the dealer for a month.

The dealer in Lawrence got an allocation for a black Type R. $15,500 ADM plus $1,800 for nitrogen in the tires and door guards.

 

[Mass]

The dealer in Lawrence got an allocation for a black Type R. $15,500 ADM plus $1,800 for nitrogen in the tires and door guards.

Rich frat student is gonna scoop that up.

 

[Mathman]

Rich frat student is gonna scoop that up.

LOL, wouldn’t surprise me. All I know is I’m not paying anywhere near that. I didn’t even bother going back and forth, just told them I’m not interested.

 

[ScumbagRob]

Performance package 5,377, interior package 1,206, seat back protectors 133, body side molding 296, door edge guards 299, trunk tray 199, wheel locks 149, all weather mats 199, rear bumper protector 108.50.

Now the stuff that are over priced or not needed, nitrogen 199, tinted windows 699, lumar door cups 299. The nitrogen, lumar door cups are over priced by 450. The tinted windows should be about 400 less. So they got over on me for about 850. all of the other parts are the installed price and i get the parts taken off. So I'll end up with a set of winter and summer tires. All in all i'm good with this. My first car when I was 16 was a 1964 GTO. I turned 70 so now i'm not much for hesitation. The only reason I'm moving into a newer type r for the safety features the 2019 doesen't.

If you got both the forged wheels and the CF wing for $9k markup, that's a good deal IMO.

 

[Jflorio]

If you wanna drop $55k-$70k on a Civic that's on you. Some people think it's worth it, some don't. At the end of the day. It's not our problem on how others decide how to spend their money.

Agreed and thats my point. People that choose to pay the markup aren’t putting up with anything. They have the funds and make a decision to purchase. Those that don’t have the funds or wish to pay the markup great. Just stop bitching about it. If you can find a car, that you feel is worth it, great go spend your money.

 

[ElDuder]

I wouldn't say that. there are people who still are on the hunt that aren't willing to compromise. I agree with your comment about downgrading, as I was in the same situation. The FK8 honestly wasn't even on my radar when I was shopping around for a GT350. I only started seriously considering getting one afterwards to replace my daily driver. Even with a $20k markup there wasn't anything that interested me, the cars that I really wanted like a GT500, M5, E63, or 718 GT4 are all +$100k. Looks are subjective and they played into my decision as well and the FL5 CTR was the perfect option. When I saw the prototype it got me hyped and I knew thats the car I wanted to get next.

I imagine those or at least the majority of those who buy a completely different car come at it from a different perspective. They are simply looking to upgrade, and tbh I don't blame them. Getting a C7 or Hellcat/ZL1/Mustang all are enticing options considering they are all within the budget of the CTR (with markups), and can offer a more fun experiecne. Like I said, I wasn't even considering getting a CTR when I wanted to upgrade. I never was a Honda Fanboy, always was a muscle car guy

The Type R is a capable car that checks all the boxes for daily duties. Along with bragging rights of owning a limited, new toy, those are the reasons people buy the Type R. It’s definitely not for an investment because there’s better cars to purchase for an investment.

 

[hockeyman316]

Food for thought.

Whats interesting on the ADM topic is people are not willing to do the work to find an MSRP deal or lower ADM - However, they are willing to compromise by buying a completely different car. What’s the value on settling?

For me, there’s no comparable car since I wouldn’t buy a GR Corolla, Golf R, or Elantra N. I’m coming from a GT350R and wanted something that looks good, fits the family, and can handle track duties without adding a bunch of different cooling upgrades. Looks are subjective but are a huge part of my decision making.

If you buy almost any other vehicle at MSRP, that isn’t limited in production, you’re going to take a loss that is similar to a small ADM on the back end. IE: 3-5k or possibly more.

If you plan to keep the car, it’s worth putting the extra work in. I’ve found ALL manufacturers have the exact same problem with speciality cars and NONE of them care about your loyalty, purchase history, or any stories for that matter. That comes down to the dealer and in Florida they DGAF about the consumer.

I’ve dealt with the same issues with Ford, Honda, Chevrolet and Toyota. They are all the same. It’s a huge turnoff with every brand.

There’s a big chance things continue to turn around within the next year plus and dealers will be begging for business. The issue is the lower production cars are going to always command a premium to other vehicles. That premium could be buying it at MSRP while another vehicle is 5-8k under.

I personally put a huge value on color and that made my search even more difficult. I wouldn’t take a color I didn’t want for MSRP and that limited my search even more. The Type R fortunately doesn’t look bad in any color IMO, but there was a value to get exactly what I wanted.

I also sold my car first, despite not needing to, which was over a 5k swing - even with tax savings. Trades almost always break a deal for me so is something else you can consider exploring. This is obviously tougher if you only have one vehicle.

My point is to be patient and put in some work if you want the car. It’s very unlikely that somebody is going to drop one in your lap for MSRP with current demand.

Buying something else isn’t going to be the same as buying the Type R. There’s a reason you see guys that are putting these in their garage next to some very high end vehicles or in my case “downgrading” from a GT350R and M2 Competition.

To add some further insight, there are plenty of dealers sitting on allocations at 10k over. With the third wave incoming, things are only going to get better.

This was very well said/written/thought out/etc. I appreciate your insight. It's true that for many of us, myself included, this is either a dream car or a bucket list car. When we do own it, the wait will most certainly be well worth it.

To put a different perspective on things, there are some who simply cannot afford the ADM. For some, even getting the car at MSRP is pushing their budget boundaries, which could be why some find it increasingly frustrating with others who are willing to pay $10-20k over sticker price. I know "it's ONLY $5k marked up", but for those who budget monthly expenses that's roughly $75-100 a month extra you are throwing away "just because it's a Type R", so I can understand people's hesitation to do so from that perspective.

I will never knock how someone else spends their money, as I've done my fair share of reckless spending. My point is I can understand the position this puts others in who may truly love and want the car, it's just out of their reach due to price and they get frustrated over seeing others drive the price up by paying well over MSRP.

I have seen the car start at 36k MSRP and go up to 44k now, which for those doing math at home is a 22% increase over the course of only 7 years. It's hard to see many other cars increased that much over such a short period of time, especially when you look at the Civic Si, where in 2000 it was priced at $17,500 and in 2018 sticker was $24,500, meaning it experienced the same price increase, but it took 18 years to get there.

Speaking from personal experience, this car has been just out of my reach financially since it came up because of the ADM's that dealers are charging. I was actually first on a list to get one, then a new GM came in, took me off the list, and said if I wanted back on I needed to spend $15k over sticker. I had some choice words for him and will never go back to that place again. I'm at a place right now where I could afford a brand new one if it was at MSRP because I've been slowly building equity on my trade in. I also started saving money for a down payment, so that should help too.

For those who are discouraged, look at your current situation. Ask yourself, how far off are you to affording this car, then make some moves to make it happen when the prices come down. It doesn't matter if you get Type R #100 or #10,000, as long as you get one. Pay down credit card debt, make some spending sacrifices, save up for a down payment, do what you have to do so when the time is right you will be in the right position to buy......and even though I know waiting is the hardest part, it will be worth it when you find the right deal for YOU.

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