The FL5 Dealer ADM Markup Thread

[hockeyman316]

Food for thought.

Whats interesting on the ADM topic is people are not willing to do the work to find an MSRP deal or lower ADM - However, they are willing to compromise by buying a completely different car. What’s the value on settling?

For me, there’s no comparable car since I wouldn’t buy a GR Corolla, Golf R, or Elantra N. I’m coming from a GT350R and wanted something that looks good, fits the family, and can handle track duties without adding a bunch of different cooling upgrades. Looks are subjective but are a huge part of my decision making.

If you buy almost any other vehicle at MSRP, that isn’t limited in production, you’re going to take a loss that is similar to a small ADM on the back end. IE: 3-5k or possibly more.

If you plan to keep the car, it’s worth putting the extra work in. I’ve found ALL manufacturers have the exact same problem with speciality cars and NONE of them care about your loyalty, purchase history, or any stories for that matter. That comes down to the dealer and in Florida they DGAF about the consumer.

I’ve dealt with the same issues with Ford, Honda, Chevrolet and Toyota. They are all the same. It’s a huge turnoff with every brand.

There’s a big chance things continue to turn around within the next year plus and dealers will be begging for business. The issue is the lower production cars are going to always command a premium to other vehicles. That premium could be buying it at MSRP while another vehicle is 5-8k under.

I personally put a huge value on color and that made my search even more difficult. I wouldn’t take a color I didn’t want for MSRP and that limited my search even more. The Type R fortunately doesn’t look bad in any color IMO, but there was a value to get exactly what I wanted.

I also sold my car first, despite not needing to, which was over a 5k swing - even with tax savings. Trades almost always break a deal for me so is something else you can consider exploring. This is obviously tougher if you only have one vehicle.

My point is to be patient and put in some work if you want the car. It’s very unlikely that somebody is going to drop one in your lap for MSRP with current demand.

Buying something else isn’t going to be the same as buying the Type R. There’s a reason you see guys that are putting these in their garage next to some very high end vehicles or in my case “downgrading” from a GT350R and M2 Competition.

To add some further insight, there are plenty of dealers sitting on allocations at 10k over. With the third wave incoming, things are only going to get better.

This was very well said/written/thought out/etc. I appreciate your insight. It's true that for many of us, myself included, this is either a dream car or a bucket list car. When we do own it, the wait will most certainly be well worth it.

To put a different perspective on things, there are some who simply cannot afford the ADM. For some, even getting the car at MSRP is pushing their budget boundaries, which could be why some find it increasingly frustrating with others who are willing to pay $10-20k over sticker price. I know "it's ONLY $5k marked up", but for those who budget monthly expenses that's roughly $75-100 a month extra you are throwing away "just because it's a Type R", so I can understand people's hesitation to do so from that perspective.

I will never knock how someone else spends their money, as I've done my fair share of reckless spending. My point is I can understand the position this puts others in who may truly love and want the car, it's just out of their reach due to price and they get frustrated over seeing others drive the price up by paying well over MSRP.

I have seen the car start at 36k MSRP and go up to 44k now, which for those doing math at home is a 22% increase over the course of only 7 years. It's hard to see many other cars increased that much over such a short period of time, especially when you look at the Civic Si, where in 2000 it was priced at $17,500 and in 2018 sticker was $24,500, meaning it experienced the same price increase, but it took 18 years to get there.

Speaking from personal experience, this car has been just out of my reach financially since it came up because of the ADM's that dealers are charging. I was actually first on a list to get one, then a new GM came in, took me off the list, and said if I wanted back on I needed to spend $15k over sticker. I had some choice words for him and will never go back to that place again. I'm at a place right now where I could afford a brand new one if it was at MSRP because I've been slowly building equity on my trade in. I also started saving money for a down payment, so that should help too.

For those who are discouraged, look at your current situation. Ask yourself, how far off are you to affording this car, then make some moves to make it happen when the prices come down. It doesn't matter if you get Type R #100 or #10,000, as long as you get one. Pay down credit card debt, make some spending sacrifices, save up for a down payment, do what you have to do so when the time is right you will be in the right position to buy......and even though I know waiting is the hardest part, it will be worth it when you find the right deal for YOU.

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[DarthTrizzle]

This was very well said/written/thought out/etc. I appreciate your insight. It's true that for many of us, myself included, this is either a dream car or a bucket list car. When we do own it, the wait will most certainly be well worth it.

To put a different perspective on things, there are some who simply cannot afford the ADM. For some, even getting the car at MSRP is pushing their budget boundaries, which could be why some find it increasingly frustrating with others who are willing to pay $10-20k over sticker price. I know "it's ONLY $5k marked up", but for those who budget monthly expenses that's roughly $75-100 a month extra you are throwing away "just because it's a Type R", so I can understand people's hesitation to do so from that perspective.

I will never knock how someone else spends their money, as I've done my fair share of reckless spending. My point is I can understand the position this puts others in who may truly love and want the car, it's just out of their reach due to price and they get frustrated over seeing others drive the price up by paying well over MSRP.

I have seen the car start at 36k MSRP and go up to 44k now, which for those doing math at home is a 22% increase over the course of only 7 years. It's hard to see many other cars increased that much over such a short period of time, especially when you look at the Civic Si, where in 2000 it was priced at $17,500 and in 2018 sticker was $24,500, meaning it experienced the same price increase, but it took 18 years to get there.

Speaking from personal experience, this car has been just out of my reach financially since it came up because of the ADM's that dealers are charging. I was actually first on a list to get one, then a new GM came in, took me off the list, and said if I wanted back on I needed to spend $15k over sticker. I had some choice words for him and will never go back to that place again. I'm at a place right now where I could afford a brand new one if it was at MSRP because I've been slowly building equity on my trade in. I also started saving money for a down payment, so that should help too.

For those who are discouraged, look at your current situation. Ask yourself, how far off are you to affording this car, then make some moves to make it happen when the prices come down. It doesn't matter if you get Type R #100 or #10,000, as long as you get one. Pay down credit card debt, make some spending sacrifices, save up for a down payment, do what you have to do so when the time is right you will be in the right position to buy......and even though I know waiting is the hardest part, it will be worth it when you find the right deal for YOU.

My '17 Si was 24k OTD. I just saw one at a dealer for 32k. That's not far off how much the CTR has went up.

 

[hockeyman316]

Mine is an ‘18 and was $24,500. Crazy to see how much a new Si is right now

 

[mbaapk]

Mine is an ‘18 and was $24,500. Crazy to see how much a new Si is right now

Realistically- my FG2 was 20k in 2006. Compound that price with 3% annual inflation on average and you land up over $30k.

 

[CTRifecta]

New civic Sis are going for 5adm in my area... Not sure where people are finding them for MSRP but even those are super hard to get currently.

 

[TDC50]

Honda Pilot went up 27% in the last 4 years. Inflation due to reckless government spending is a bitch.

Also median home prices in US went up 47% in those same 4 years. Feeling poorer yet if you don’t own a home?

This was ………………..

I have seen the car start at 36k MSRP and go up to 44k now, which for those doing math at home is a 22% increase over the course of only 7 years. It's hard to see many other cars increased that much over such a short period of time, ………….

 

[Luckylou13]

I've been told $20k by 2 dealers in Dallas/Ft. Worth (Honda of Denton, Honda of Grapevine). Consensus for DFW seems to be between $10-20k over.

I've been told $20k by 2 dealers in Dallas/Ft. Worth (Honda of Denton, Honda of Grapevine). Consensus for DFW seems to be between $10-20k over.

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I jugot mine in Jersey and



































































































I just got mine at a dealership in New Jersey 18k

 

[menikmati]

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I jugot mine in Jersey and

I just got mine at a dealership in New Jersey 18k

You alright there buddy?

 

[CTR]

Pretty good advice. Biggest thing is buy what you can afford. I agree that $5K over is a great deal on the car at this time. You won't regret it or lose any money IMO.

$5K-$10K try to get at least something for your money in the form of accessories.

 

[Obscure_Worship]

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I jugot mine in Jersey and



































































































I just got mine at a dealership in New Jersey 18k

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I jugot mine in Jersey and



































































































I just got mine at a dealership in New Jersey 18k

Hmm

 

[TypeRD]

The Si price comparison over the last 18+ years isn’t a totally valid point. The reason I say that is because inflation vs car prices are a funny thing. For example, I calculated the price of my ‘09 Si in 2023 dollars, and my car would’ve been right in that $30k-$32k ballpark price today. So basically, pre-pandemic, Si prices (virtually all car prices) have not kept up with inflation. We’ve been buying cars cheap for ages and didn’t realize it! We also had a massive supply of cars to buy from! So really, what seems like a a high price for a new 2023 Si, is actually fair market value (not including ADM). The sticker shock we are dealing with today stems from the fact that prices have “caught up” abruptly with inflation. The fallout of Covid, including supply chain problems, lack of inventory, etc. etc. has reshaped the economic landscape and shifted how auto makers supply the market. To reiterate, really the only thing out-of-line with fair market value are the ADMs. With people willing to pay ADMs…well…here we are today.

 

[AspecR]

The Si price comparison over the last 18+ years isn’t a totally valid point. The reason I say that is because inflation vs car prices are a funny thing. For example, I calculated the price of my ‘09 Si in 2023 dollars, and my car would’ve been right in that $30k-$32k ballpark price today. So basically, pre-pandemic, Si prices (virtually all car prices) have not kept up with inflation. We’ve been buying cars cheap for ages and didn’t realize it! We also had a massive supply of cars to buy from! So really, what seems like a a high price for a new 2023 Si, is actually fair market value (not including ADM). The sticker shock we are dealing with today stems from the fact that prices have “caught up” abruptly with inflation. The fallout of Covid, including supply chain problems, lack of inventory, etc. etc. has reshaped the economic landscape and shifted how auto makers supply the market. To reiterate, really the only thing out-of-line with fair market value are the ADMs. With people willing to pay ADMs…well…here we are today.

Ahh yes, some logic to start the day, watch this get ignored in the pursuit of “Dealerships be damned”

 

[daazn]

Ahh yes, some logic to start the day, watch this get ignored in the pursuit of “Dealerships be damned”

 

[TypeRD]

In other news : I was told by my local dealer that my CW CTR is arriving today! Next week is my bday too, so maybe they’ll have it ready for the best bday gift to myself ever…well, and thanks to my wife too. Hahaha! It’ll be my first new car since I bought my ‘09 Si (which I just sold last fall in prep for the CTR’s arrival). Loved that car, but it was time. I waited a long time for Honda to release a car I truly wanted to own and give up my Si for. I think my wait is going to be 1000% worthwhile.

As I know people will ask : Yes, I am first in line. I paid $5k ADM up front just a few days after the FL5 reveal (US pricing hadn’t been established yet). I did my research and made the decision I was getting an FL5 and the $5k ADM was reasonable to me to ensure I get one. Did I mention I’ve not had a new car since 2009? Hahaha! I keep cars I like, so again, in my situation the $5k ADM is not a major problem and I don’t care about the residual value 10-20 years later when I still have it in my garage. Other than that, they’re making me buy a $1300 protection package that I know is not great (it’s not ceramic coat or anything like that), but they said they put it on all their cars. Not super happy about it, but whatever. I’m over it. At least I’m getting something for that money and it’s not just straight ADM in their pocket. Other than that, any other accessories I want to add are up to me. I’ve decided to keep add-ons minimal to start with, so I can experience the car from-the-factory as Honda intended for awhile.

 

[dandaman15]

Local dealer in Milwaukee got one, Rosen Honda. Went to discuss in person and they initially wanted 20k over MSRP, was able to finally get them down to 10k, but its Boost Blue and not my ideal color.

I do have a deposit and MSRP allocation local so I just wanted to see if I could swing the needle and get it around 5k or less and have the car now. I am 4th in line at another local dealer and not really expecting to receive a car this year.

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